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I have a 50g tank with 2 toby puffers, a blue hippo tang and an achilles tang. The last fish to have been added was the achilles tang, but that was in Aug of last year. The only other things in there are as follows (with when added in parenthesis):
hermit crabs (been there a long time)
coral banded shrimp (added in Dec)
burrowing snails (Dec)
mushrooms (~1 month ago)
red kelp (couple days after the shrooms)
a couple pieces of live rock (~2 weeks ago, came from a live rock only tank)
There have been no significant changes to the tank other than an increase in lighting from ~110 watts to ~188 watts with the addition of my new light fixture (added about 2 1/2 weeks ago). Today I added a Koralia 2 to increase water movement and thus airation.
pH 8.2 NH3 ~0 NO2 ~0 NO3 ~20 Ca ~480 ppm <----a bit high, but its been like that for about 3 months now
salinity ~1.023
I feed the fish every day and change 10g every week, usually sundays. I do not use additives other than various vitamins for the fish (Zoe, Zoecon, Vitamin C) and phytoplankton for the tiny feather dusters and shrooms.
The tank has been set up for sometime around 2 1/2 years and was cycled the newbie way with damsels. I have had ich before and some other deaths due to unknown causes with no symptoms. But this is the first outbreak of disease in the tank in over a year. The last fish to have died in the tank was a lemonpeel angel due to my error - I didn't turn on the air pump, thereby drasticly lowering the pH.
Both of the tangs are showing the sprinkling of white characteristic of marine velvet. The blue tang started showing it exactly one week ago and the achilles showed the next day. The achilles commonly visits the shrimp and has been cleaned before. The blue tang is currently in a 10g quarentine tank due to it being only 4 in long and can be housed in the QT. I have not started any dosing other than strictly following the recommended dosage for Vitamin C and monitoring the pH. The achilles seems to be too large for my QT and is still in the main tank receiving no extra attention other than visits to the shrimp. I have not observed either of the fish showing the other common signs of velvet like scratching. The puffers are showing no signs of being infected with velvet, but I understand that that doesn't mean they don't have it.
The tang in the QT was placed in there yesterday, which is when I started dosing VC as listed on Kent's VC. After a week of recommended dosage, I will slowly double it by adding the rec dosage twice a day and monitor the pH as often as possible. As the blue tang "appears" to no longer have the disease, I am hoping the VC has already started to work as yesterday it also had cloudy eyes, which today it doesn't. Today, the achilles, which seemed to have been affected less from the velvet, would be a perfect specimen for a picture, as it is covered in the dusting. I took the rec dose of Kent's VC and halfed it for the 1st day of dosage (today).What is the best way to treat the velvet in the QT and potentially the main tank (which houses the inverts)?
As a side note, where did this come from?
Thank you in advance and I am perfectly willing to provide any additionaly info needed.
DRRT
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Group: Forum Members
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| I know it is hard to see, esp since the fish never seems to stop moving, but here are the best of the pics I took of the achilles tang. There is currently nothing to see on the blue tang. Both fish are breathing heavily, the blue moreso than the achilles, but then again this observation was only about 20 min after eating. 
DRRT
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DRRT (5/4/2008)
I have a 50g tank with 2 toby puffers, a blue hippo tang and an achilles tang. The last fish to have been added was the achilles tang, but that was in Aug of last year. The only other things in there are as follows (with when added in parenthesis):
hermit crabs (been there a long time)
coral banded shrimp (added in Dec)
burrowing snails (Dec)
mushrooms (~1 month ago)
red kelp (couple days after the shrooms)
a couple pieces of live rock (~2 weeks ago, came from a live rock only tank)
There have been no significant changes to the tank other than an increase in lighting from ~110 watts to ~188 watts with the addition of my new light fixture (added about 2 1/2 weeks ago). Today I added a Koralia 2 to increase water movement and thus airation.Inverts can transport external parasites. I recommend everything wet to be quarantined for a minimum of a month.
The tank has been set up for sometime around 2 1/2 years and was cycled the newbie way with damsels. I have had ich before and some other deaths due to unknown causes with no symptoms. But this is the first outbreak of disease in the tank in over a year. The last fish to have died in the tank was a lemonpeel angel due to my error - I didn't turn on the air pump, thereby drasticly lowering the pH. Did you treat the tank or the fish for ich??
Both of the tangs are showing the sprinkling of white characteristic of marine velvet. The blue tang started showing it exactly one week ago and the achilles showed the next day. White spots - salt like is more characteristic of ich - cryptocaryon irritans. Marine velvet - amyloodinum has a velvety sheen. Velvet progresses rapidly and can kill within 24 hours. The achilles commonly visits the shrimp and has been cleaned before. Have to think the tank could have had external parasites - especially in the gills. The blue tang is currently in a 10g quarentine tank due to it being only 4 in long and can be housed in the QT. I have not started any dosing other than strictly following the recommended dosage for Vitamin C and monitoring the pH. The achilles seems to be too large for my QT and is still in the main tank receiving no extra attention other than visits to the shrimp. I have not observed either of the fish showing the other common signs of velvet like scratching. The puffers are showing no signs of being infected with velvet, but I understand that that doesn't mean they don't have it. The tang in the QT was placed in there yesterday, which is when I started dosing VC as listed on Kent's VC. After a week of recommended dosage, I will slowly double it by adding the rec dosage twice a day and monitor the pH as often as possible. As the blue tang "appears" to no longer have the disease, I am hoping the VC has already started to work as yesterday it also had cloudy eyes, which today it doesn't. Today, the achilles, which seemed to have been affected less from the velvet, would be a perfect specimen for a picture, as it is covered in the dusting. I took the rec dose of Kent's VC and halfed it for the 1st day of dosage (today). What is the best way to treat the velvet in the QT and potentially the main tank (which houses the inverts)? All fish will need to be removed and treated. The inverts can stay in the display tank. The tank will need to be fishless for at least 4 - 6 weeks. Do not add anything to this system. Quarantine everything in the future. Since there is a question as to the external parasite - copper is my recommendation. Seachem cupramine is a safe copper. Follow the directions closely. Monitor water parameters daily as well as the copper levels. Make sure to obtain the appropriate copper test kit as there are different forms of copper treatments. Add extra aeration to the treatment tank as fish with parasites will have an increased oxygen need. The treatment for velvet is copper. It does NOT respond to hyposalinity. Here is a good stickied thread:
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic31173-10-1.aspx As a side note, where did this come from?
Thank you in advance and I am perfectly willing to provide any additionaly info needed. If the tank was never treated for ich in the past......there is your answer. If the inverts and fish weren't quarantined......there is another possibility.
Kelly
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Thank you for the quick response. Sorry I couldn't get better pics. The fish never seems to stop.
I have been reading up, and I no longer think it is velvet and most likely some type of ich. I think if it was velvet I would have already lost some fish. Since ich can be treated with hyposalinity, I will start that treatment on the blue tang very soon, so long as it remains in good health. It is currently more active in the QT than it was in the main tank.
Can inverts withstand a hyposalinity treatment?
Since I can't afford an additional tank nor have room, I may have to treat the main tank with hyposalinity (if the inverts can handle it) OR put the blue back in the main tank, move the inverts, macroalgae, some of the live rock, and half the lights to the QT. I can't fit all the rock in the QT and I have not treated for copper in any of the tanks, so there is no risk from that. THEN I can treat the main with hyposalinity all at once. Yes a little backwards, but this is the only way I can think of to utilize a 50g main and 10g QT.
Tank stability:
So far the pH in both tanks has been steady at 8.3 I use the Seachem buffer, which helps maintain dKh as well. NH3, NO2 are undetectable in the main tank and NO3 ~ 25 ppm. In the QT NH3 rose to about .2 ppm but the NO2 and NO3 are undetectable. I would "feed" the QT when no one was in there, but it seems there still is a little spike due to the addition of the tang. All fish and other creatures still being closely monitored.
Still no signs of disease on either of the puffers.
Still no signs of scratching from any of the fish.
All inverts in good health.
Blue tang no longer has the white cysts, but breaths quickly, yet more active in QT than when in main tank.
Achilles still covered in white speckels and also breaths quickly. Overall activity the same.
DRRT
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DRRT (5/5/2008)
Thank you for the quick response. Sorry I couldn't get better pics. The fish never seems to stop.
I have been reading up, and I no longer think it is velvet and most likely some type of ich. I think if it was velvet I would have already lost some fish. Since ich can be treated with hyposalinity, I will start that treatment on the blue tang very soon, so long as it remains in good health. It is currently more active in the QT than it was in the main tank. As the feeding parasite falls off, temporary relief may be "felt".....but the cyst will hatch out and the free swimming parasites will reinfect.
{Can inverts withstand a hyposalinity treatment? NO!!
Since I can't afford an additional tank nor have room, I may have to treat the main tank with hyposalinity (if the inverts can handle it) OR put the blue back in the main tank, move the inverts, macroalgae, some of the live rock, and half the lights to the QT. I can't fit all the rock in the QT and I have not treated for copper in any of the tanks, so there is no risk from that. THEN I can treat the main with hyposalinity all at once. Yes a little backwards, but this is the only way I can think of to utilize a 50g main and 10g QT.
Hyposalinity will kill off the microfauna in the live rock and substrate. This will affect the biological filtration and water quality.
Tank stability:
So far the pH in both tanks has been steady at 8.3 I use the Seachem buffer, which helps maintain dKh as well. NH3, NO2 are undetectable in the main tank and NO3 ~ 25 ppm. In the QT NH3 rose to about .2 ppm but the NO2 and NO3 are undetectable. I would "feed" the QT when no one was in there, but it seems there still is a little spike due to the addition of the tang. All fish and other creatures still being closely monitored.
Still no signs of disease on either of the puffers.
Still no signs of scratching from any of the fish.
All inverts in good health.
Blue tang no longer has the white cysts, but breaths quickly, yet more active in QT than when in main tank.
Achilles still covered in white speckels and also breaths quickly. Overall activity the same. Need to start treatment sooner rather than later as the parasites are multiplying(breeding) and this is a stressor which can weaken the fish and leave them vulnerable to secondary infections. The inverts can not "catch" the parasite but can carry/transport them.
Kelly
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| Since I can't afford to get a bigger QT, would this work: All inverts in QT with one of the main's lighting fixture. The live rock and sand that can't fit in the QT in a large (cleaned with baking soda) trash can/plastic bin with air pump/powerhead. All the fish in the main tank with no live sand/rock, with PVC stuff for hiding, treated with hypo.
DRRT
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DRRT (5/6/2008)
Since I can't afford to get a bigger QT, would this work: All inverts in QT with one of the main's lighting fixture. The live rock and sand that can't fit in the QT in a large (cleaned with baking soda) trash can/plastic bin with air pump/powerhead. Baking soda is not a good cleaning agent. Some trash cans are treated with chemicals and they can be released into the salt water. What was in the trash can ? Do you have access to salt buckets or kitty litter buckets? All the fish in the main tank with no live sand/rock, with PVC stuff for hiding, treated with hypo. What are you going to use as the biological filtration on this tank??
Kelly
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Puffer Queen (5/6/2008)
[quote]Baking soda is not a good cleaning agent. Some trash cans are treated with chemicals and they can be released into the salt water. What was in the trash can ? It was being used to bleach artificial tank decorations then, with the items still in it, refilled with water and treated with declorinator. It is more of a bin with wheels bought for the sole purpose of what's above. [b]Puffer Queen (5/6/2008)
[quote]Do you have access to salt buckets or kitty litter buckets? I can probably get a salt bucket, no cat stuff. [b]Puffer Queen (5/6/2008)
[quote][b]What are you going to use as the biological filtration on this tank?? I was going to pull out all the chemical filtration, add more floss and keep on using the same filter. There is also a air pump and powerhead providing more h2o flow. The QT has a small HOT and an air driven sponge filter. I will also get another air pump for movement in the bin. I'm going to get a bucket. I need to get the achilles a fw bath. It is breathing very fast and I think it will relieve it of some of the irritation until it can be properly treated. I planned on doing all this tomorrow afternoon so long as you think it somewhat safe.
DRRT
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DRRT (5/6/2008)
[quote] Puffer Queen (5/6/2008)
[quote] Baking soda is not a good cleaning agent. Some trash cans are treated with chemicals and they can be released into the salt water. What was in the trash can ?It was being used to bleach artificial tank decorations then, with the items still in it, refilled with water and treated with declorinator. It is more of a bin with wheels bought for the sole purpose of what's above. I would not use baking soda but rinse well and let air dry. [b]Puffer Queen (5/6/2008)
[quote] Do you have access to salt buckets or kitty litter buckets?I can probably get a salt bucket, no cat stuff. These can serve as treatment containers, QT and holding tanks. [b]Puffer Queen (5/6/2008)
[quote][b]What are you going to use as the biological filtration on this tank??[ I was going to pull out all the chemical filtration, add more floss and keep on using the same filter. There is also a air pump and powerhead providing more h2o flow. The QT has a small HOT and an air driven sponge filter. I will also get another air pump for movement in the bin. What i | | | |