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My new clowns in quarantine woke up sick,... Expand / Collapse
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Posted 4/28/2008 10:36:01 PM
 

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I got a pair or percular clowns yesterday who seemed perfectly healthy and acclimitized them for an hour,  then put them into my quarantine tank (lights out 2 reduce stress),  4 hours later I fed them.  Only the larger 1 ate, inspected them once more before i went to bed they looked fine still, no sign of disease, etc.

Got up in the morning found they both have about 5 spots on their body, also, the larger clown has a white outline of a mis shaped circle on 1 side of its head, and the smaller clown has a redish-brownish line/mark below it's bottom lip.

The larger clown is still eating, but the smaller clown is not interested in food.  I noticed a white stool floating in the water (not a good sign-i know)

water parameters r fine, the quarantine tank is fully cycled, it's bare bottom, 5 gal.

Unfortunately i can't post pictures. The clowns r from the wild, not captive bred.

Please help ASAP, I don't want these clowns to die.

ALWAY QUARANTINE NEWCOMERS!!!

Post #85261
Posted 4/29/2008 11:32:16 AM


 

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Last Login: Yesterday @ 4:34:26 AM
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Welcome to the MarineDepot forums.

angelfish addict (4/28/2008)
I got a pair or percular clowns yesterday who seemed perfectly healthy and acclimitized them for an hour,  then put them into my quarantine tank (lights out 2 reduce stress),  4 hours later I fed them.  Only the larger 1 ate, inspected them once more before i went to bed they looked fine still, no sign of disease, etc.

Good husbandry!  If you hadn't quarantined these clowns, the display tank would have been exposed/infected.

Got up in the morning found they both have about 5 spots on their body, also, the larger clown has a white outline of a mis shaped circle on 1 side of its head, and the smaller clown has a redish-brownish line/mark below it's bottom lip.

How are the clowns breathing - fast, hard?  Is there increased mucous production?

The larger clown is still eating, but the smaller clown is not interested in food.  I noticed a white stool floating in the water (not a good sign-i know)

water parameters r fine, the quarantine tank is fully cycled, it's bare bottom, 5 gal.

What are the specific water parameters?  What type/how much water flow is in this tank?

Unfortunately i can't post pictures. The clowns r from the wild, not captive bred.

How long were these clowns at the LFS?  Are there any other clowns at the LFS?

Please help ASAP, I don't want these clowns to die.

For clown fish, especially wild caught one, I recommend prophylactically treating for brooklynella.  I would perform daily one hour formalin baths for at least 3 - 5 days.  With yours - I would definitely perform daily for five days.  Make sure the formalin bath is well aerated as formalin will literally strip the oxygen from the water which will suffocate the fish.

After the formalin treatments are complete, I would definitely deworm these clowns.

Again, welcome.  Please keep us updated.

Best of luck.


Kelly
Post #85291
Posted 5/5/2008 1:24:53 AM
 

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I started using cuprazin which is a mixture of copper and formalin, but it wasn't helping much, so i changed 25% and used copper to remove.  Seems the copper has killed the nitifying bacteria coz i now have nitrites 0.3 and ammonia 0.5 will do another 30% water change today and keep testing the water.

I did a formalin bath yesterday the little clown didn't like it much and kept trying to jump out of the bath, so I only left him there for 2 minutes, I will try again today maybe in a darker container or something.

I got the clown to eat, but he will only eat brine shrimp and I got him eating garlic as well.

Activity is fine, no heavy breathing, no mucus/slime but on the redened areas there is alittle mucus not much though.



ALWAY QUARANTINE NEWCOMERS!!!

Post #85553
Posted 5/5/2008 1:40:33 AM
 

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Sorry, i forgot to mention that about 4 days ago while i was cleaning the detrius and left over food from the Quarantine tank, the little clownfish must have bumped his chin or scratched it on something (I don't know on what coz the tank had only the filter inside at the time) any way the red bit on his chin started bleeding for afew minutes and became very red.

The next day it was back to how it was before he bumped it.

After I used the formalin yesterday, the redness got redder but this morning it seems to have turned more pink than red and the bit of mucus that was there has decreased in size, although the redness has spread alittle further across his chin (so it's actually gotten bigger but less red).  He may also be getting another red dot now on his left nostril and possibly his left gill too, the redness in those 2 sights kind of comes and goes.  I realize that using the formalin for only 2 minutes isn't enough but how can I tell really if he's just jumping around coz he doen't like it in there or if there is something seriously wrong and i need to get him out NOW.

thank you

ALWAY QUARANTINE NEWCOMERS!!!

Post #85554
Posted 5/5/2008 1:54:24 AM
 

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To answer your questions, the clowns were at the LFS for only a day,

they came from a tank full of clowns and there r still other clowns there,I went back to the LFS 5 days later to check if any others r sick and only 2 seem to have brookynella.

There's no heavy breathing or slime/mucus, skin looks fine (perfect actually), very alert and active, eating.

I'm kind of thinking now it may not be brookynella coz if it was wouldn't the clown be dead by now?  It's been 1 week since I got him.

Water perameters now Ph 8.2 , Nitrite 0.3 , Ammonia 0.5 ,Nitrate 20 , SG 0.022, Temp 80 degrees, Copper 0.10 (during treatment which I now stopped and am in the process of removing).  Exact waterflow not sure, but it's an internal sponge filter and i have a small airstone in there close to the surface of the water to keep it agitated for gas exchange.  5 Gal tank, no substrate, only 1 small freshwater decoration which I removed yesterday just incase if the reason y he's not getting better is coz he keeps bumping/rubbing it on the decoration.

Hope this helps.

ALWAY QUARANTINE NEWCOMERS!!!

Post #85555
Posted 5/5/2008 7:25:20 AM


 

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angelfish addict (5/5/2008)
I started using cuprazin which is a mixture of copper and formalin, but it wasn't helping much, so i changed 25% and used copper to remove.  Seems the copper has killed the nitifying bacteria coz i now have nitrites 0.3 and ammonia 0.5 will do another 30% water change today and keep testing the water.

Formalin will affect the biological filtration.  I recommend not adding formalin to treatment tanks and with formalin, I only treat with the bath method.

I did a formalin bath yesterday the little clown didn't like it much and kept trying to jump out of the bath, so I only left him there for 2 minutes, I will try again today maybe in a darker container or something.

What type of aeration was in the container?

I got the clown to eat, but he will only eat brine shrimp and I got him eating garlic as well.

Is this live or frozen?

Activity is fine, no heavy breathing, no mucus/slime but on the redened areas there is alittle mucus not much though.

Watch closely for secondary bacterial infections


Kelly
Post #85565
Posted 5/5/2008 7:30:54 AM


 

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angelfish addict (5/5/2008)
To answer your questions, the clowns were at the LFS for only a day,

they came from a tank full of clowns and there r still other clowns there,I went back to the LFS 5 days later to check if any others r sick and only 2 seem to have brookynella.

If there are any with brooklynella then all should be considered infected.  Some may become "sicker" than others depending on infestation and immune system.

There's no heavy breathing or slime/mucus, skin looks fine (perfect actually), very alert and active, eating.

I'm kind of thinking now it may not be brookynella coz if it was wouldn't the clown be dead by now?  It's been 1 week since I got him.

Not necessarily.

Water perameters now Ph 8.2 , Nitrite 0.3 , Ammonia 0.5 ,Nitrate 20 , SG 0.022, Temp 80 degrees, Copper 0.10 (during treatment which I now stopped and am in the process of removing).  Exact waterflow not sure, but it's an internal sponge filter and i have a small airstone in there close to the surface of the water to keep it agitated for gas exchange.  5 Gal tank, no substrate, only 1 small freshwater decoration which I removed yesterday just incase if the reason y he's not getting better is coz he keeps bumping/rubbing it on the decoration.

Problem with stopping a treatment early is you could partially (ineffectively) treat an external parasite problem.

Airstones should be place towards the bottom to circulate the water.  Low water flow/movement in the bottom leads to low oxygen levels and elevated carbon dioxide.

Rubbing against objects is a way a fish tries to rid itself of an external parasite.


Kelly
Post #85566
Posted 5/5/2008 7:34:09 AM


 

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angelfish addict (5/5/2008)
Sorry, i forgot to mention that about 4 days ago while i was cleaning the detrius and left over food from the Quarantine tank, the little clownfish must have bumped his chin or scratched it on something (I don't know on what coz the tank had only the filter inside at the time) any way the red bit on his chin started bleeding for afew minutes and became very red.

The next day it was back to how it was before he bumped it.

After I used the formalin yesterday, the redness got redder but this morning it seems to have turned more pink than red and the bit of mucus that was there has decreased in size, although the redness has spread alittle further across his chin (so it's actually gotten bigger but less red).  He may also be getting another red dot now on his left nostril and possibly his left gill too, the redness in those 2 sights kind of comes and goes.  I realize that using the formalin for only 2 minutes isn't enough but how can I tell really if he's just jumping around coz he doen't like it in there or if there is something seriously wrong and i need to get him out NOW.

thank you

This reaction could be low oxygen levels, or possibly formalin burning?  What dose are you using?

Also, if there are open or bleeding areas, formalin should not be used.  If the red areas are possibly getting bigger or spreading, I would recommend starting antibiotic baths.  I would suggest Nitrofurazone, Kanamycin or Minocycline (Maracyn-2).  I would  do 1 hour well aerated baths daily for at least 7 - 10 days. 


Kelly
Post #85567
Posted 5/11/2008 11:58:01 PM
 

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what would a 2ndary bacterial infection look like?

I've been continuing the formalin baths daily since I wasn't able to come online to check what u suggested doing next. 

the red areas on his chin completely cleared up and same as his nostrils.  I am using an airstone for aeration during the bath.  Increased bath timing to an hour, and that's when I started seeing the results.  the redness of the gills started to settle after the first half hour of the bath and looked alot better after.

I also did 3 FW dips for 5 mins in methylene blue and dabbed abit of methylene blue on the red areas, this also seemed to 'dry' up the mucusy areas on his chin.

2 days ago (3 formalin baths later) his left gill started to swell up and there was abit of blood there and mucus or possible white worms coming out of gill.  right gill is fine though.

continued treatment, yesterday as i was dabbing methylene blue on red bleeding  gill the clownfish jumped and cotton bud got caught in wormlike thing.  the good news wormlike thing gone (there's still 3 more like it to go)......bad news, he lost afew scales from his gill when this happened and now u can c the flesh in his gill.

I won't be using the formalin until the wound heals up, but there's still more of these white things on his gill, they look very dry.  I felt the 1 that came off and it feels hard and fleshy, kind of like those stringy fleshy things that grow out of ur cuticle from time to time & hurt when u get salt or citrus on them.

any idea what these white things are?

I'm just going 2 leave him in the QT with no treatments 4 now.  the SG is 0.009.

Do I need 2 do anything to the 'healthy' clownfish in the QT with him? They've been there 4 2 weeks now and she doesn't seem 2 b sick.

ALWAY QUARANTINE NEWCOMERS!!!

Post #85833