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This 5" Spiny Box Puffer (C. shopfi) was rescued from a fish store where it was kept for about two months. It is so severely emaciated that it is highly inverted on the bottom; the condition is so bad that we wonder how the fish could still have viscera at all. However, the fish is bright-eyed, interactive and eager takes food in to eat. This was not true a month ago when we visited the same store, which is why we felt this fish needed some individual TLC. The store did not treat the fish for internal parasites, which we feel certain is at least part of the problem.
The problem we see us that this fish is very eager to eat, but can't swallow, food is chewed and efforts to swallow are obvious, but very little seems to make it to his stomach. We've never seen a fish this starved look so alert, it has definitely not given up on life. Some sliminess may be coming from the fish's head mouth or gills, its hard to say where. This fish swims about attentively 100% of the time (so far) and gets excited when people approach his tank. He seems very relaxed considering he was moved yesterday. He takes food offered from our hands, bites fingers through the glass, and chases after ghost shrimp when he sees them.
Treatment so far: Prazipro per instructions on bottle (day 1 = yesterday).
Foods offered: Ghost Shrimp, feet pulled from live clams, (accepted but most comes back out)
Dried Krill and blood worms reconstituted with Gel Tek for parasites (refused)
Available foods not yet offered: Shrimp, squid, earthworms, frozen krill/misis shrimp/brine shrimp
Fish is in a 29 Gallon QT tank
Tank set up yesterday has:
-a single rock (hiding place - not used so for)
-magnum filter loaded with live rock
-18" air stone with a dual output dedicated air pump.
Any treatments or suggested strategies that could help us get some weight on this fish would be appreciated.
Is assisted (inject into mouth) feeding of a vitamin enriched and or medicated food slurry a reasonable option?
Thanks,
R&A
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| Welcome to the MarineDepot.com forums! FishFan (4/18/2008)
This 5" Spiny Box Puffer (C. shopfi) was rescued from a fish store where it was kept for about two months. It is so severely emaciated that it is highly inverted on the bottom; the condition is so bad that we wonder how the fish could still have viscera at all. However, the fish is bright-eyed, interactive and eager takes food in to eat. This was not true a month ago when we visited the same store, which is why we felt this fish needed some individual TLC. The store did not treat the fish for internal parasites, which we feel certain is at least part of the problem. This species of puffer is very prone to internal worms and parasites. Was this puffer eating well at the LFS? The reason why I ask this is that this species of puffers is also known to literally starve to death in captivity. Many do not adapt to aquarium life and prepared foods, This is why I discourage this species being brought into the hobby. For every one that is successfully kept there are unfortunately too many that do not make it past the first few weeks/months.
The problem we see us that this fish is very eager to eat, but can't swallow, food is chewed and efforts to swallow are obvious, but very little seems to make it to his stomach. We've never seen a fish this starved look so alert, it has definitely not given up on life. This is a common observation which can often be observed in this species even before they become emaciated. Once they have become emaciated, this "feeding" behavior becomes more pronounced. The puffer often becomes too weak and organs begin to fail/shut down. Some sliminess may be coming from the fish's head mouth or gills, its hard to say where. Stress from malnutrition versus disease process as the puffer's immune system is too weak to fight off opportunistic pathogens? Or a combination of both? This fish swims about attentively 100% of the time (so far) and gets excited when people approach his tank. He seems very relaxed considering he was moved yesterday. He takes food offered from our hands, bites fingers through the glass, and chases after ghost shrimp when he sees them. Once again, this is commonly observed and is so frustrating as the puffer is active.
Treatment so far: Prazipro per instructions on bottle (day 1 = yesterday). I would follow the directions on the bottle. I would also consider adding metronidazole treatment.
Foods offered: Ghost Shrimp, feet pulled from live clams, (accepted but most comes back out) Make sure you are gut loading the ghost shrimp to make them as nutritious as possible.
Dried Krill and blood worms reconstituted with Gel Tek for parasites (refused) I would steer away from these. Available foods not yet offered: Shrimp, squid, earthworms, frozen krill/misis shrimp/brine shrimp I would not recommend earthworms as there is a potential for pathogens. Shrimp, squid, mysis are good food options. Brine shrimp is not a good nutritional source unless gut loaded.
Fish is in a 29 Gallon QT tank
Tank set up yesterday has:
-a single rock (hiding place - not used so for)
-magnum filter loaded with live rock
-18" air stone with a dual output dedicated air pump. Make sure you have the airstone and filter secured away from the puffer. Weak puffers can get stuck to filter intake caps. Also, the puffer could chew on the intake or dislodge it and get sucked in .....I have seen this many times. Might consider separating this equipment from the rest of the tank with a plastic lighting screen. This allows adequate water movement/filtration without danger to the puffer or the equipment.
Any treatments or suggested strategies that could help us get some weight on this fish would be appreciated.
Is assisted (inject into mouth) feeding of a vitamin enriched and or medicated food slurry a reasonable option?
Thanks,
R&A At this point, I would recommend tube feeding this puffer. I would recommend very small feedings 2 - 3 times a day. You do not want to feed large volumes as the puffer's digestive system will not be able to handle it. The other problem is the stomach has shrunken and overfeeding can lead to vomiting. Any idea how much the puffer weighs? If you go this route, you might also consider adding the medications to the food as this would ensure that the puffer is getting it. Please keep us updated. Best of luck.
Kelly
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We are aware of the crises you've been having with your pets and appreciate your effort helping us with our new fish. We read your last post and have taken action in response to your recommendations where needed.
We saw this fish twice in the LFS's tanks, once after it was there a month, and again at two months. We knew of this species' tendency to starve in captivity and its propensity for heavy IP loads. The LFS had not treated for IPs. We purchased this fish during our second visit because of this and the improvement we observed over the last month. We felt there was hope that proper treatment and some TLC could bring this fish back to good health.
Here are some photos of this fish posted in connection with a discussion elsewhere:
He puffed in the 5 gallon bucket used to transport him from the LFS to home, so we were worried about puffing air during an attempt to get his weight. We used a method that seemed likely to minimize this possibility. We scooped him up in a glass bowl half filled with water, weighed the bowl, then quickly transferred him back into the aquarium and weighed the bowl again. Allowing 5 grams for the water that moved with him during the very quick bowl to tank transfer, his weight is about 75 grams. Fortunately, getting his weight took at most 15 seconds and didn't seem to stress him much.
In retrospect the head slime noted in our previous post, and which is no longer present, was most likely a result of the differences in water properties following purchase or possibly prophylactic copper use by the seller. The latter of these is speculative since we don't know if this seller uses copper prophylactically.
Since our last post we offered frozen mysis shrimp. He didn't seem to notice it. Also, today we offered him the foot from a live clam about 1/8"x1/4"x1/16" and didn't find it chewed up in the tank later. Our impression is that he is getting some food in, though we have not seen any feces yet proving that food is being "processed".
We have Metronidazole in the form of Jungle's Parasite Clear fizz tabs (praziquantel, Metronidazole, diflubenzuron, and acriflavine. The package doesn't mention use in salt water. Is this an appropriate medication for this fish?
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| Thanks for sharing/posting the pics. Other than the extreme emaciation, the skin and eyes do look good. If possible, I would not wait any longer to tube (gavage) feed. The longer the body (organs) are deprived of nutrition, the more irreversible damage can occur. I understand the stress factor and there comes a point of no return. The longer the puffer goes, the weaker it will become and even if it takes in a bite here and there....it is not enough. Normally with a 75 gm fish, one would feed 2-4 % of body weight - 1.5 - 3 ml. This weight is extrememly low for this puffer, but I would not base feedings on a higher weight. I would not feed more than 1.5 ml per feeding per feeding for at least a couple days as the stomach is shrunken and the body will not be able to adequately digest/process the food. Overfeeding at this stage can be harmful....it is a catch 22. You see the same scenario is starved dogs as well as people. Feeding should be slow and consistent. I would add the metronidazole to the tube feeding. If you can get your hands on another product with metronidazole that would be better - acriflavine is not used in saltwater and I would not administer this product via a feeding. If you find a product with praziquantel and/or another dewormer, that would be fine to feed as well. Please keep us updated. Best of luck.
Kelly
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In the last 24 hours there has been one very noteworthy change. We've been offering him the firm fleshy feet from live clams purchased at our grocery store. He shows more interest in this food than any other we've offered other than live Ghost Shrimp. It seems that if I trim the pieces so they are long and thin (like a short piece of spaghetti noodle) he is able to swallow them. Today we think he ate 4-5 of these. Once he eats one of these "clam strips", if a second piece is offered it is either chewed up and spit out or ignored altogether. After 2-3 hours if we offer him food again, he seems willing to take it. Today we'll continue to offer him these "clam strips" every 2-3 hours and observe longer to see if he is really keeping them down. It is possible he is chewing the pieces up and spitting them out after we stop watching (after 10 min.-15 min or so) and the pieces are small enough they fit through the filter's intake screen.
If he is getting the food in that we think he is, do you think we should go ahead with force feeding?
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Also, if you think tube feeding is necessary, how would you go about it. After my last post I also noticed some possible parasites stuck to the outside of the filter intake (see photo). Do the white objects in the photo look like parasites that you would expect to be passed after treatment with Prazipro. I apologize for the fuzzy photos, the magnification is considerable. I hope the photos actually work, I'm not sure that the method I used is what the site designers intended.  .
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| More new developments. He is now eating twice as much at a sitting compared to yesterday. We're now also certain he is keeping the food down and not just spitting it out when we aren't looking. Additionally, we've now observed that he is defecating. What is coming out is whitish liquidy jets of what looks like very digested clam strips and mucus.
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| Without viewing under a microscope, I can say for sure what they are but they are highly suspicious for worms. My first guess looking just at the pics is nematodes as I can't appreciate the head or segments that are classic for cestodes. Nematodes have a pointy end and a rounded end - head and tail. Praziquantel is a good dewormer for cestodes but can eradicate nematodes. Fenbendazole is a good dewormer for nematodes. Monitor food intake carefully and remember small meals and build up slowly. If the food intake continues on this current path of progression, I would hold off on tube feeding. But remember if he wastes a lot of energy chewing/spitting and only taking in a small amount - this wastes calories and the food ingested will not meet caloric/metabolic needs. The passage of stool is a good sign. If undigested food is passed. .....decrease the amount and/or frequency of feeds. Thanks for the updates and the pics. Please keep us updated. Best of luck.
Kelly
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