I've been documenting this issue at http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=894 with more dates and pictures.  The fish had actually undergone a full treatment of Maracyn II which had no effect.  Suggestions have been fatty liver disease (basically excess HUFA's in the diet) and Nitrogen Gas Saturation (i.e. fish "Benz").  In my opinion, based on husbandry, neither seem likely.  5 other fish in the tank (My Onyx Percula pair and 3 Fathead anthias) are currently unaffected).

Here's one picture of each fish to give you an idea.

I'd appreciate any insight someone might have!  It's getting to the point where I"m considering euthanizing these fish just to protect the breeding Onyx Percs...I'd rather not have it get that far.

Thanks!

Matt

You only have to raise one....

Thanks for sharing/posting.

How did you administer the maracyn-2?  How long did you treat?

The jaw fish are in and have been in with the other fish - correct?  So the other fish have already been exposed?

How long has this problem been going on?

What are your current water parameters?

What are you feeding the tank?

What type of substrate?  How deep is the substrate? 

Probably since Early July, but really noticed it on the first one come Mid July.  It is steadily progressively getting worse.

All within "acceptable" ranges.  The only thing out of whack for my preference was the nitrates at 40-60 ppm.  Corals certainly don't care and thrive in this though

Mainly Formula 1 and Formula 2 pellets, Spectrum Pellets, Frozen Enriched Mysis and Brine from various manufacturers, frozen food enriched with either Vibrance II (basically Astaxanthin), Reef Plus, or Selcon, live adult brine enriched with Nannochloropsis/Tetraselmis/T-Iso/Nannochloris as needed for the newer Fathead anthias (still weaning them onto prepared foods).

Crushed Coral Sand mostly, 6"+ in places.  They have PLENTY to burrow and hide in..I think there's about 50 lbs in a roughly 15" X 17" area.

FWIW,

Matt

You only have to raise one....

are you noticing any bouyancy problems with the fish yet?  at first glance it resembles what seahorse keepers call EGBD (external gas bubble disease).  it is somewhat common in seahorses (i had an adult develop tail bubbles while a juvenile in the same tank did not) and i've seen a frog fish with it, salamanders in austin, texas were found with it, and can be a problem with migrating juvenile salmonids and other fish at aquaculture facilities.  i know how to treat seahorses but will wait to see what kelly thinks as i may be way off base.

Gas Bubble Trauma is another name for the condition and is generally associated with gas supersaturation.  it's actually a fairly researched and monitored problem around dams/hydroelectric facilties and some aquaculture facilities.  google search using "total dissolved gases" "gas supersaturation" "gas bubble trauma" "dissolved gas supersaturation" will yeild a lot of information that may or may not help you.   an example:

(http://www.ecy.wa.gov/pubs/0503010.pdf)

TDG may also be increased or decreased by natural phenomena:

1. High biological primary productivity can cause diurnal variation of dissolved oxygen which is also reflected in TDG levels.
2. Rising and falling water temperatures can cause increases and decreases of TDG pressure and percent saturation, even with constant dissolved gas concentrations.
3. The percent saturation of TDG can rise if atmospheric barometric pressure drops, simply because percent saturation is a function of ambient equilibrium pressure. These effects are generally stronger when travel time is slower.
4. Natural waterfalls and cascades can either increase or decrease gas levels. In general, plunging waterfalls generate gas, while cascades passing over rock surfaces can cause degassing.

Fish in water with high TDG levels may not display signs of difficulty if higher water pressures at depth offset high TDG pressure passing through the gills into the blood stream. However, if the fish inhabit supersaturated water for extended periods, or rise in the water column to a lower water pressure at shallower depths, TDG may come out of solution within the fish, forming bubbles in their body tissues. This gives rise to gas bubble trauma (GBT), which has symptoms that include bubbles in the fins and lateral lines, bulging eyes, and mortality at high levels.

any unusual temperature spikes in the tank?  what was the temp in july and what is it now?

I think you are right on track.....I was trying to get as much history and information gathering so all reading the thread could have as much information to learn/share/benefit.

I would have to lean towards EGBD and would also 'entertain' the idea of possible bacterial component.  I have seen NASTY bacteria grow in deep crushed coral beds.  When cultured many are highly resistant to many common antibiotics.  Since the jawfish are in this bed while the other fish are not - might consider both in this case.

I would consider treating with a different antibiotic - kanamycin or nitrofurazone (in separate tank) and diamox for the EGBD.

Anela, do you have the dose handy....I have to go done to my fish room in the basement and look at my drug sheet......

Thanks for sharing.

i understand about the possible bacterial component.  as for the diamox:  the dose for small seahorses (up to 3") is 1/4 250 mg tablet per 10 gallons, small species (up to 5 inches) 1/2 250mg tablet per 10 gallons and medium to large species (over 8 inches) 1 250mg tablet per 10 gallons.  they're currently recommending 100% water changes daily with a new dose given daily but in the past i've done 50% daily water changes without issues.  crush the tablet into a fine powder and mix in seawater - pour into hospital tank and discard residue.  

the only thing i would caution about is the potential loss of appetite and the fact i've never used it on a "regular" fish.

I would definitely treat with the diamox in a separate tank. 

I would also consider treating with antibiotics as bacteria definitely can cause gas bubbles.  I would be highly suspicious of bacterial infection with the fact that there is crushed coral (dead areas where bacteria like to grow) and especially if there has been a temp spike!

Please keep us updated on the progress.

Best of luck!

mwp- i'm off for a little bit, good luck with your fish.

Gas supersaturation just seems highly unlikely unless dissolved gasses are having a hard time ESCAPING the tank....

No unusual temp issues...

Will reply more later as possible!

Matt

You only have to raise one....

Matt

You only have to raise one....