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RyanNi
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Posted 7/5/2007 6:43:18 AM
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Hello again everyone! I have had a Cyanobacteria problem for at least 6 months if not a year? It typically only grows on the sand in areas of lower flow (yes I know that is not helping). Here is what I've tried, I've increased the water turnover rate to 41x per hour, new protein skimmer, increased water changes, less feeding, phosphate removers, lots of activated carbon, refugium, the list goes on. I cannot simply place a powerhead that "blows" across the sand because I have some corals that prefer lower flow on the sand, as an example a pink Cynarina and some brain corals. I know this is not the "proper" place to post this but I figured maybe I could get some other ideas here. I've been reading, reading, reading, reading and have found that my cyano problem is due to excess DOC's, which I've been trying to control but apparently have not been controlling them too well? I've also read that excess CO2 can contribute to this problem but have no way of increasing O2 levels without causing damage to corals (bubbles getting trapped on underside). I just read this morning that bicarbonates can add to a build up of CO2 which does not help? I just want all of you to know that I did as much research, have tried as many things as I could, am running out of "solutions".............please don't treat this as a complete newbie question.......I've heard all the typical "cures" and am looking for some other ideas (sorry if that came off a bit "snobby", I did not mean it that way). I've had this posted on other forums like WetWebMedia's WWF, have emailed the FAQ crew there....can you tell I'm out of ideas? Here's my tank info. 92 gallon reef tank with 3 fish, a small Kole tang, small Regal tang, and a clownfish. I have numerous corals, Acropora, Pocillipora, Montipora, blue ridge coral, Echinopora, Cynarina, brain corals, and I think maybe a few others. Lighting is 2 250 watt 10K XM metal halide bulbs (I recently upgraded from one 250 watt to 2 with no affect on the cyano), which are on for 6 hours a day. Powerheads and pumps are one Mag 9 for the sump return, one Tunze 6100, one Hydor (the new one with 1200 gph). My skimmer is a EuroReef RS-135 which is placed in a 30 gallon sump with a refugium. The refugium contains a large amount of Chaetomorpha algae, DSB, and some live rock rubble. My water parameters are: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate < 5, PO4 undetectable, Calcium 350 (too low), Alk 9 Dkh, Ph 8.4 (pretty constant), temp. 80 (also constant). I hope that's everything. Please help I'm getting so irritated with this! Thanks, Ryan. BTW all water is RO/DI with a TDS reading of 0. Thanks again.
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What corals and how many do you have on the sand? Is the cyano mostly around and downstream of the corals?
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Eric Borneman
The people who are trying to make this world worse are not taking the day off. How can I?
Light up the darkness.
- Bob Marley
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Umm_fish
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Posted 7/5/2007 7:25:21 AM
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Let's see ... you could move the corals temporarily while you blast one area of the sandbed. Move the corals back and blast another area. Lather, rinse, repeat. 
In one of my nanos I have had a cyano problem, and it turns out that a little flatworm hitchhiker seems to eat the cyano. It's no miracle because if the conditions favor the cyano it can grow faster than the worms can multiply, but in conjunction with lowering nutrients, etc., the worms seem to help.
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Andy
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adagosto
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Posted 7/5/2007 8:00:44 AM
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Hello.Sounds like a great system. I'm sorry about you nagging problem. It also sounds like you are learning a lot in the process of solving this problem. The cure is hopefully not far off. One thing that I am curious about is the amount of live rock you have in your tank and how deep your sand bed is. Also, how "new" is the live rock. Thanks. Adam
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RyanNi
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Posted 7/5/2007 8:02:47 AM
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Wow that was fast! Eric I have 4 corals on the sand that would prefer lowish flow. A Favia, Favites, Cynarina, along with some frags. I could "blow" the sand off but am worried about where the cyano would end up (not sure if it would hurt the corals or not). I'm thinking of putting some rubble under the corals on the sand, adding some flow on the bottom of the tank? Today I am going to use a small powerhead and "clean" my rocks to try and get rid of as much detrius as possible. I am very anti chemical so I've let it be and have been trying to get rid of it naturally. It is not super fast spreading/growing, it takes a week and half to get to the point of annoying me, and it's always in the exact same spots. I would seriously REALLY appreciate ANY help with this, it's driving me nutty. Thanks again.
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RyanNi
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Posted 7/5/2007 8:06:42 AM
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I missed the last question. I have a TON of LR, probably 150 lbs which is all 1.5 years old, for the most part anyway. Any rock that has been added was extremely cured, if not overcured. My sand bed could be much deeper, it's about 3 inches deep but varies throughout the tank due to the high amount of flow. The refugium has a 6 inch deep sand bed. I do have a half a bag of sand I can add to the tank, however I think that would just make it look nicer and have little effect on denitrification.
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Believe it or not, Dolabella auriculata sea hares eat it. I read a thing a while back about scientists harvesting sea hares for some pharmaceutical compound, and it turning out that the compound was made by the cyanobacteria the sea hares ate, not the hares themselves. I have put more than one sea hare in a cyano-ridden tank and seen it decrease dramatically. Worth a try, but do know that you will need to feed the hare once the cyano and green algae is unavailable.
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RyanNi
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Posted 7/5/2007 10:18:41 AM
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Thanks for the tip on the sea hares, I would prefer to leave them out of it just because I know what will happen when the cyano is gone. I'll look them up anyway and see if that MAY work for me. When I said lowish flow, I mean not getting blasted like the top of the tank. Trust me there getting more than enough flow. The reason for the cyano in those areas is because it is the lowest flow area of the tank. If I had anymore flow on the bottom of the tank, my sand would be getting blown all over, in fact one spot on the bottom of the tank is bare because the sand has been blown away and cyano will even grow there.
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DonJasper
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Posted 7/5/2007 12:37:04 PM
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Comments:
Check out the pictures here: http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic69619-9-1.aspx and get back to me about "low flow" favia. I've got two streaming powerheads in my 65 and I have very sparing LR. My sand does move around, it forms flats, drifts and dunes that come and go - anyone that needs should take a few moments to let (that apparently alien) concept sink it. Even though this must never happen where there is both sand and moving water - my corals seem to be able to withstand it.
Zip on over to the 'Calfo forum and read his rants about skimmate production / cleaning skimmers and tuning skimmers. Too many nutrients (which is what you have) will always find a way to annoy - if it's not cynobateria, its some form of algea. Like Jeff Goldblum said "Life will find a way."
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RyanNi
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Posted 7/5/2007 1:19:00 PM
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Thanks for the pictures, gives me a very clear picture of how things actually are. With all the reading I do it can become confusing, most things say "lower" flow for brain corals, obviously they can adapt to about any flow. I have read about the skimmer production that Anthony Calfo wrote...........basically a cup a day, cleaned often (2-3 times a week), and have a second skimmer that is cleaned on alternate days. I do have my skimmer tuned to produce nearly a full collection cup per day, which would equal (sorry I have no idea) more than a cup. What you have suggested about changing my flow would be quite easy for me and I wouldn't even need to add any powerheads. I do have a couple other corals I forgot to mention that would not be happy with EXTREMELY high flow, 2 torch corals, and of course the Cynarina. I'll play around with this and see what happens. Thanks for all the ideas, please keep them coming.
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