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I have a porcupine pufferfish who cannot eat. From my bit of research, this look like the place who may have some advice. The levels in my tank are all normal, except for nitrates which are too high and high salinity which I am working on with water changes and fresh carbon filters. I read about puffer lockjaw and sore mouth, but my puffer's teeth do not look to long and he can still open and close his mouth. I would love to start feeding him hard shelled food, if I could get him to eat. Like most puffers he is a beggar and he still gets really excited at feeding time. He practically jumps out of the tank for the food, which I hand feed him, but for three days now he can't seem to bite the food. He can open his mouth, but when he gets the food it looks like its hurting him or something.
I just added vitamins to the water, but I just wish I could help him eat. He is obviously intersted in the food. I can't figure out how to "force" feed him, though it doesn't seem like it would really be force feeding if he wants the food. Please let me know if you have any advice. Thanks for your time.
-Crisso
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| Crisso, Welcome to MarineDepot.com forums. Sorry to hear about your puffer. How long have you had the puffer? What size tank is the puffer in? What are your specific water parameters? What have you been feeding the puffer? What vitamins and supplements have you been using & how often? Any new additions to the tank? Again, welcome!
Kelly
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 12/2/2007 1:17:43 AM
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I have had my puffer for about a year and a half. He is about 5" long in a 55 gallon tank with only a humu trigger for company. I had a lunar wrasse, but he died from the stress of moving  I am wondering if it was the stress of moving that is effecting the puffer. We just moved to a new house, only 2 miles from our old home, but I assume it was stressful to the fish. However, the puffer stopped being able to eat the day before we moved the tank. He did watch us take all our stuff out of the townhome, and we could not move the tank for about a month after we moved. I don't know if that would stress a fish out enough for him to stop eating. ( we would go to our old house every day to check the fish)
The pH is 8.1, amonia is 0, nitrites are 0, nitrates were too high last time I checked (about 80) They have always been high in my tank. I do regular water changes and in the past I have done 50% water changes hoping to bring the levels down with little effect on the nitrates and the local aquarium store is of little help. I don't think I have ever seen nitrates in the 20-30 range where they should be, and I am not sure why. Just this last two weeks I have done two 20 gallon water changes, with another 20 gallon change planned tomorrow, I will check the nitrate levels again.
I have fed the puffer Tetra Jumbo dried krill for his whole life. I never knew I should be feeding him anything else. (again I asked the local shop and was appearently mis-informed about puffer care) I also give him Kent Garlic Xtreme.
Only after joining this forum did I learn that I should be giving him vitamin supplements. I bought the only thing available in the store: Vitamix plus, so I added that to the tank Saturday. No new additions to the tank.
After doing research, I feel like a bad fishy-mommy. I wish I had been feeding him mixed food early on. I have also read many descriptions of puffers with like symptoms, but the blogs never come to a conclusion, so I have found no answers. I really appreciate your time and help.
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crisso (5/28/2007)
I have had my puffer for about a year and a half. He is about 5" long in a 55 gallon tank with only a humu trigger for company. Really need to consider a bigger tank - chronic stress can weaken immune systems and shorten life spans. I had a lunar wrasse, but he died from the stress of moving I am wondering if it was the stress of moving that is effecting the puffer. Did you move the tank in its entirety or did you break down and reset up? Substrate? We just moved to a new house, only 2 miles from our old home, but I assume it was stressful to the fish. However, the puffer stopped being able to eat the day before we moved the tank. He did watch us take all our stuff out of the townhome, and we could not move the tank for about a month after we moved. I don't know if that would stress a fish out enough for him to stop eating. ( we would go to our old house every day to check the fish) Were there any temp fluctuations? Water changes during this month?
The pH is 8.1, amonia is 0, nitrites are 0, nitrates were too high last time I checked (about 80) They have always been high in my tank. I do regular water changes and in the past I have done 50% water changes hoping to bring the levels down with little effect on the nitrates and the local aquarium store is of little help. I don't think I have ever seen nitrates in the 20-30 range where they should be, and I am not sure why. Just this last two weeks I have done two 20 gallon water changes, with another 20 gallon change planned tomorrow, I will check the nitrate levels again. What type of filtration is on this system? Substrate? What type of water are you using for this system? I have fed the puffer Tetra Jumbo dried krill for his whole life. I never knew I should be feeding him anything else. (again I asked the local shop and was appearently mis-informed about puffer care) I also give him Kent Garlic Xtreme.
Only after joining this forum did I learn that I should be giving him vitamin supplements. I bought the only thing available in the store: Vitamix plus, so I added that to the tank Saturday. No new additions to the tank. Unfortunately this is a common scenario with predatory fish fed only freeze dried krill. The krill does not supply all the vitamins/minerals a fish needs. In the ocean, fish are not limited to just one food source. When symptoms become evident, unfortunately the condition is often irreversible. Many threads on this forum - search "krill". I would recommend pristine water conditions and NO more krill. I would offer squid, shrimp, silversides or even live gut loaded ghost shrimp. May try tube feeding as well.
After doing research, I feel like a bad fishy-mommy. I wish I had been feeding him mixed food early on. I have also read many descriptions of puffers with like symptoms, but the blogs never come to a conclusion, so I have found no answers. I really appreciate your time and help.
Please keep us updated. Best of luck.
Kelly
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Last Login: 12/2/2007 1:17:43 AM
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New discovery. .. After another 25 gallon water change my nitrates
were still insanely high. I then decided to do a control test on the
water I was using to change the tank and it tested clean. Confused I
did a second test on the tank water and re-read the instructions in
the kit. The instructions say to compare the test tube "against" the
white of the color card, so I had been holding it touching the card.
I called the company and discovered that I am not supposed to hold
the tube "against" the card. Suddenly it is clear why my tank has
always appeared to have high nitrates. I've been reading results
wrong for a year and a half. My nitrates are currently at 20. Not 80.
There should not have been any temp. fluctuations during the month we
were not living with the fish, as we left the air conditioner on as
it was when we lived there. I did one water change, replacing with 5
gallons of RO, as so much water had evaporated that salinity was
pretty high.
For filtration, I have one of those tanks with all the little blue
bio balls, as well as a protein skimmer. We use Saltwater from
Catalina island, and have a white sand subtrate. (I hope I am
answering these questions clearly enough) When we moved the tank, we
bagged the two fish, emptied the water and moved the whole tank as
one piece, since it can't come apart without being broken.
I figure tube feeding is a last resort, how long should I wait before
trying it? As I understand, I have to bag my puffer, put him in QT
and sedate him. ( I am unclear on how to do this) then tube feed him
something mashed up or blended. Can I then put him back into the
tank to wake up? Also, have you heard of puffers recovering their
ability to eat on their own after tube feeding? or will this need to
become a every 2-3 day ritual? Thanks again for your help.
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Group: Moderators
Last Login: 10/7/2008 12:38:12 PM
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crisso (5/29/2007)
New discovery. .. After another 25 gallon water change my nitrates
were still insanely high. I then decided to do a control test on the
water I was using to change the tank and it tested clean. Confused I
did a second test on the tank water and re-read the instructions in
the kit. The instructions say to compare the test tube "against" the
white of the color card, so I had been holding it touching the card.
I called the company and discovered that I am not supposed to hold
the tube "against" the card. Suddenly it is clear why my tank has
always appeared to have high nitrates. I've been reading results
wrong for a year and a half. My nitrates are currently at 20. Not 80.
There should not have been any temp. fluctuations during the month we
were not living with the fish, as we left the air conditioner on as
it was when we lived there. I did one water change, replacing with 5
gallons of RO, as so much water had evaporated that salinity was
pretty high.
For filtration, I have one of those tanks with all the little blue
bio balls, as well as a protein skimmer. Wet/dry filters - aka bioball filtration is a good filtration for fish only systems - it efficiently converts ammonia to nitrite then to nitrate.....there needs to be a nitrate "remover". I highly recommend large weekly - biweekly water changes on smaller systems. On larger systems - remote deep sand buckets and refugiums with chaeto help with this chore. The search function key in the upper right corner will yield many helpful threads.
I figure tube feeding is a last resort, how long should I wait before
trying it? As I understand, I have to bag my puffer, put him in QT
and sedate him. ( I am unclear on how to do this) then tube feed him
something mashed up or blended. Can I then put him back into the
tank to wake up? Also, have you heard of puffers recovering their
ability to eat on their own after tube feeding? or will this need to
become a every 2-3 day ritual? Thanks again for your help.
I would wait a couple of weeks - unless the puffer physical well being starts to drastically change. I have seen a couple puffers resume eating. As far as tube feeding - you are correct - do not expose the unsedated puffer to air. I would sedate with MS 222 (Argent) - available via on-line vendors at a concentration of 100 ppm in a separate well aerated tank. Have an additional tank that is well aerated for 'recovery'/wake up and 'wash off'. Make sure what ever you feed will go through whatever tube you are inserting - check before inserting the tube. Predatory fish usually will eat every 2 - 5 days. I would definitely try adding vitamin B 12 to the water as well as any food to see if you can stimulate the appetite. Please keep us updated. Best of luck.
Kelly
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 12/2/2007 1:17:43 AM
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I wanted to give you all an update, because when I first looked for info on my situation I noticed that I could find LOTS of example of puffers that couldn't eat, but no one seemed to come back with any proof that the suggested cures worked. (ie tube feeding etc..) I had never seen anyone say "YAY he's eating again".... SO..
YAY!! He's eating again! Thanks, Pufferqueen for your great advice.
I was so afraid he had gotten lock jaw or something. His mouth was clearly sore. I made sure the water perameters were perfect with constant monitering and added vitamins to the water. About 3 days ago he was able to eat again. No more freeze dried krill. I have gotten him frozen vitamin enriched krill(that I thawed to tank temperature of course), along with squid, silversides and mysis shrimp. He seems to only want to eat the krill. I assume this is because I only ever fed him freeze dried krill, but I hope garlic will help interest him in other foods.
As far as crunchy foods go, what do you recommend I try to give him to keep him from getting lock jaw? I've heard I could buy him seafood from the grocery store, like crab, but he is only 5" long and doesn't eat that much. I can't imagine giving him a whole chunck of crab with the shell. I'll keep working on getting him to eat things other than krill, any suggestions? I'm just so happy he is eating and I don't have to tube feed him. Thanks again for your help.
-Crystal
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Group: Moderators
Last Login: 10/7/2008 12:38:12 PM
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crisso (6/13/2007)
I wanted to give you all an update, because when I first looked for info on my situation I noticed that I could find LOTS of example of puffers that couldn't eat, but no one seemed to come back with any proof that the suggested cures worked. (ie tube feeding etc..) I had never seen anyone say "YAY he's eating again".... SO..
YAY!! He's eating again! Thanks, Pufferqueen for your great advice. Great News!
I was so afraid he had gotten lock jaw or something. His mouth was clearly sore. I made sure the water perameters were perfect with constant monitering and added vitamins to the water. About 3 days ago he was able to eat again. No more freeze dried krill. I have gotten him frozen vitamin enriched krill(that I thawed to tank temperature of course), Really need to 'limit' krill - both frozen & freeze dried to once a week. Diets that consist mainly of krill lead to often irreversible damage. along with squid, silversides and mysis shrimp. He seems to only want to eat the krill. This is the common scenario once they are offered krill on a regular basis - Dr Frank Marini refers to krill as "fish crack". Please with hold krill for several weeks and get the puffer eating other food. I assume this is because I only ever fed him freeze dried krill, but I hope garlic will help interest him in other foods. Yes see above response. As far as crunchy foods go, what do you recommend I try to give him to keep him from getting lock jaw? It is the krill not the lack of 'crunchy' food that causes the lock jaw. I've heard I could buy him seafood from the grocery store, like crab, but he is only 5" long and doesn't eat that much. I can't imagine giving him a whole chunck of crab with the shell. I'll keep working on getting him to eat things other than krill, any suggestions? I'm just so happy he is eating and I don't have to tube feed him. Thanks again for your help.
-Crystal You can buy frozen crabs and cut into pieces. You can also buy squid, octopus, cuddle fish, smelt, silversides, prawn, etc. Best of luck. Please keep us updated.
Kelly
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