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Pocrupine Puffer died in tank Expand / Collapse
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Posted 4/8/2007 12:44:29 PM
 

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Last Login: 6/24/2008 8:09:22 AM
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I posted about the fish in other forums last night hoping at the last minute to find a solution, but it did not make it through the night.  I am not sure if I am aloud to post links to where I talked about the animal on the other websites.  (I know other sites will kick you from there site if you post to "non sponsored sites")  Am I aloud to post links? 

Now I am worried because I had planned to move other animals into this tank next week. I don't know if the fish was diseased and it is now in that water or if poisons excreted from the dead fish could not be in the water.  I plan to do a water change, but don't know if I have enough water to do a massive water change.  The only inhabitant currently in the 75g tank is a snowflake eel. 

I know not much can be said about it having a disease or not, but are typical Pocrupine Puffers known for putting out a lot of poisons or toxins when they die.  I know most smaller box fish and some other puffers are. 

I tried to PM pufferqueen, but her PM box was full. 

Jon

Post #65488
Posted 4/8/2007 3:19:18 PM


 

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Last Login: 10/7/2008 12:38:12 PM
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Gordonious (4/8/2007)
I posted about the fish in other forums last night hoping at the last minute to find a solution, but it did not make it through the night.  I am not sure if I am aloud to post links to where I talked about the animal on the other websites.  (I know other sites will kick you from there site if you post to "non sponsored sites")  Am I aloud to post links? 

Posting of other links on sites can be helpful if one is not selling or promoting a product or company....unfortunately not many like to jump around when trying to read/learn.  Could you cut/paste/copy/post your original post/thread that describes the problem so it will be in one area?

Now I am worried because I had planned to move other animals into this tank next week. I don't know if the fish was diseased and it is now in that water or if poisons excreted from the dead fish could not be in the water. 

Do you quarantine everything that is wet?

How long has the tank been set up?

How long have you had the puffer? eel?

What are you feeding?

What type of filtration do you have on this tank?

What are your current water parameters - specifics?

 I plan to do a water change, but don't know if I have enough water to do a massive water change.  The only inhabitant currently in the 75g tank is a snowflake eel. 

A water change is in order.  How often do you do water changes & how much?

I know not much can be said about it having a disease or not, but are typical Pocrupine Puffers known for putting out a lot of poisons or toxins when they die.  I know most smaller box fish and some other puffers are. 

The toxin in puffers is contained internally in an organ.  Poisoning occurs when the organ is ingested or if the organ in punctured/cut and the toxin contaminates other parts - i.e. sushi preparation.

I tried to PM pufferqueen, but her PM box was full. 

Jon

I prefer to answer questions on this forum as I receive over 100 emails/pm a day and attempt to moderate at least 3 sites, work a full time job, take care of 7 special needs/medically fragile furry dependents as well as 3100 gallons of salt water.....oh in between I attempt to write articles, finish my book, do presentations, volunteer 8 hours a week at a rural animal shelter.....and I do have the normal activities of a house owner....so what I am trying to stress is I try to make the most of my time and by answering questions on the forum all can benefit from the exchange of knowledge.


Kelly
Post #65497
Posted 4/8/2007 10:29:54 PM
 

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Last Login: 6/24/2008 8:09:22 AM
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Do you quarantine everything that is wet?

I have OCD, wash everything a million times.  QTed cure premium LR for about 6 months with out seeing anything to be scared of I decided it was to risky and bleached the rock to use it as base rock.  This animal was in qt for about a month. 

How long has the tank been set up?

The 75g the puffer was being moved into has been set up for about 5 months, but 100% of the water, equipment and LR came from an established system at that time.  All water changes since then have also come from the established system.  (established being ~5 years)

How long have you had the puffer? eel?

Puffer ~1 month.  Eel ~2 months. 

What are you feeding?

Puffer - Krill(mostly), silver sides(4-5 times), squid(2-3 times), brineshrimp(once), Formula One Frozen(once)

Eel - Silver sides(Mostly), squid(mostly), Krill(twice)

What type of filtration do you have on this tank? 

Currently nothing...  the tank is 75g with nothing in it, but a snowflake eel.  I have not finished plumbing it to my sump and the rest of the 200g+ system.  I do water changes on this tank(~5g) about every 4-5 days.   

How often do you do water changes & how much?

 See above

What are your current water parameters - specifics?

NH3/NH4+ ~0ppm

NO2- ~0ppm

NO3- ~0ppm

Salinity 39ppt (I know this is high)

Temp 77*F

I understand busy.  I wasn't complaining at all that your PM box is, full mine usually is, just wanted to get a hold of you because I was told I should.   Thanks for taking the time to respond. 

I didn't copy and paste every word from the other forums because when you post a message over 3 paragraphs long 99% of people in the forums won't read any of it or respond.  Here is the link that contains most of it:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1092338

Thanks again for taking the time to help. 

Jon

Post #65513
Posted 4/9/2007 2:56:58 PM


 

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Last Login: 10/7/2008 12:38:12 PM
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I have OCD, wash everything a million times.  QTed cure premium LR for about 6 months with out seeing anything to be scared of I decided it was to risky and bleached the rock to use it as base rock.  This animal was in qt for about a month. 

Marine Velvet - amyloodinum ocellatum has a longer life cycle than ich - cryptocaryon irritans.  I recommend at least 6 - 8 weeks in quarantine.  There is a thread in my forum of my own personal experience with marine velvet while approaching the one month QT mark.

Make sure not to share equipment, nets, etc between QT and display tanks also.

How long has the tank been set up?

The 75g the puffer was being moved into has been set up for about 5 months, but 100% of the water, equipment and LR came from an established system at that time.  All water changes since then have also come from the established system.  (established being ~5 years)

Was everything from the system where the water and rock taken from quarantined?

 
What are you feeding?

Puffer - Krill(mostly), silver sides(4-5 times), squid(2-3 times), brineshrimp(once), Formula One Frozen(once)

Eel - Silver sides(Mostly), squid(mostly), Krill(twice)

Need to limit the krill intake.  Diets consisting mostly of krill lead to nutritional deficiencies which take weeks to months to show signs.....lock jaw is the most common symptom - many threads on krill/lockjaw on this forum as well.

What type of filtration do you have on this tank? 

Currently nothing...  the tank is 75g with nothing in it, but a snowflake eel.  I have not finished plumbing it to my sump and the rest of the 200g+ system.  I do water changes on this tank(~5g) about every 4-5 days.   

Live rock?  Skimmer?

I didn't copy and paste every word from the other forums because when you post a message over 3 paragraphs long 99% of people in the forums won't read any of it or respond.  Here is the link that contains most of it:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1092338

Thanks again for taking the time to help. 

Jon

 

Here is the initial thread referenced above:

Pocrupinefish Puffer on last legs please help.

I purchased a Pocrupine Puffer on the 17th of last month and had him in qt until today. The qt went through some troubles about a week ago and I connected an additional tank to it with some substrate in it. The last couple of days it has started to breath heavier and heavier. This morning he was looking pretty bad and I was worried it was the qt tank doing it to him. Currently there is only a small snowflake eel in the 75g display so I moved him in hoping the other tank would have better water quality.

He continues to breath heavier and was resting on the bottom a moment ago. It appears to be struggling to swim. I am going to test the tank now to check the parameters. The tank has been running a little cool ~76-77, so I added a heater and hope it will return to 79-80.

This sounds like classic parasite infection of the gills.  The spine in question could have been a secondary bacterial infection.  Parasites will attack the gills first as this is the area where the most water passes.  Lethargy, increased respiration and anorexia are common signs of infestation in a puffer.

The tank that the puffer was in should be "deemed" infected with parasites.  All that was in the tank - eel, rock, etc.  I would recommend treating the eel in a separate bare bottom tank and leaving the tank (s) fallow - fishless for 8 weeks.  Do not add anything new to these tank (s) - rock, inverts, etc. during this fallow period.

Thanks for sharing/posting.


Kelly
Post #65559
Posted 4/10/2007 4:42:48 PM
 

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Last Login: 6/24/2008 8:09:22 AM
Posts: 74, Visits: 131
I would have kept it in qt a little longer, but was scared that the qt tank was causing the problems.  In the future though I will try to qt things at least 7-8 weeks and plan on setting up more elaborate qt system. 

Everything from the system where the water and rock were taken from was quarantined. 

I am hoping to place an order for some feeder shrimp soon.(some sort of marine shrimp)  Just wish I could find some good info on a breeding set up, so I could have a sustainable food source.  Any ideas? 

Thanks again for your help.  I am hoping by this weekend to set up some place for my eel to be housed during that fishless period.  This comes at a bad time as my French angle really needed to be moved into that tank, but I want the animal to be safe. 

Jon

Post #65638
Posted 4/10/2007 4:48:22 PM
 

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Last Login: 6/24/2008 8:09:22 AM
Posts: 74, Visits: 131
The tank is not that old, what do you think of this:
I may draining the tank, flushing the substrate with fresh water for a day or two, and then starting to cycle it again.  Using 50% of the water from my established setup and transferring more LR.  This way it could be cycled in 6 weeks and would further increase the odds of ridding any parasites. 

I also plan on fixing an old leaky HOB filter that has a UV sterilizer built into it and adding that. 

Jon

Post #65639
Posted 4/11/2007 9:11:15 AM


 

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Last Login: 10/7/2008 12:38:12 PM
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Gordonious (4/10/2007)
I would have kept it in qt a little longer, but was scared that the qt tank was causing the problems.  In the future though I will try to qt things at least 7-8 weeks and plan on setting up more elaborate qt system. 

QT systems do not have to be elaborate - cycled air driven sponge filter with plastic caves for hiding - no substrate, no live rock

I am hoping to place an order for some feeder shrimp soon.(some sort of marine shrimp)  Just wish I could find some good info on a breeding set up, so I could have a sustainable food source.  Any ideas? 

Seawater express is an excellent source for shrimp - George sells all sizes of top notch feeding shrimp.

Here is his contact email: shrimp@pahrump.com

Website:  http://www.seawaterexpress.com


Kelly
Post #65672
Posted 4/11/2007 9:26:46 AM


 

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Last Login: 10/7/2008 12:38:12 PM
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Gordonious (4/10/2007)
The tank is not that old, what do you think of this:
I may draining the tank, flushing the substrate with fresh water for a day or two, and then starting to cycle it again.  Using 50% of the water from my established setup and transferring more LR.  This way it could be cycled in 6 weeks and would further increase the odds of ridding any parasites. 

I also plan on fixing an old leaky HOB filter that has a UV sterilizer built into it and adding that. 

Jon

My suggestion for a quarantine tank would be not to plumb into another system as if the fish that is new and being quarantined has any pathogen, then the other system would be exposed.

Also - quarantine tanks should really be bare bottom (no substrate) as substrates and rock can absorb medications.  Relying solely on live rock as the biological filtration can be problematic if treatment is needed - hyposalinity and medications will kill off the microfauna of the rock and cause water instability.  Also rock will absorb medications thus achieving a therapeutic level would be very difficult.....copper can be absorbed and released causing toxic levels.


Kelly
Post #65674
Posted 4/11/2007 6:09:11 PM
 

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Last Login: 6/24/2008 8:09:22 AM
Posts: 74, Visits: 131
Have you heard of anyone culturing the shrimp?  Do you think this type of shrimp would be a good staple diet for my frog fish and snowflake eel.  I would of course also mix in some other foods.  I also have been looking at ordering some sort of vitamin supplements. 
Post #65713