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Hello all,
After attending a MAST seminar last April 06 with Anthony Calfo as the speaker, I decided to follow Anthony's advice and make a closed loop system using his design as posted on the wetwebmedia or Advanced Aquarist site. I have just completed the project and I was a little saddened by the water flow achieved from my first attempt. I have used a Sequence Reeflo Dart pump with the following plumbing: - 2" inlet pipe from tank to pump (Tank not drilled for CL so it is up and over tank method)(siphon effect) with two 1-1/2" strainers, Overall length of inlet pipe is seven feet(3.5' to first 90 degree bend then up 2' to 180 degree bend then down 1.5' to two 1-1/2" strainers tee-ed off of 2"), - 1-1/2" output pipe from pump to 1/2" outlet pipe on top of tank (28" of head with 180 degree bend to enter 1/2" pipe), - 1/2" pipe with eight loc-line valved outlets.
I then made the following modifications: I have changed all of the output pipe from 0.5" to 1.5" (except for the 0.5" Loc-line valve and nozzle) and also removed the 180 degree U trap at the connection from the pump output to the loop on top of the tank. The flow rate is now very good, infact a little to good. I need to extend a few nozzles because they are to close to the surface and are creating a huge amount of turbulence and bubbles. I think that this is due to cavitation. I ordered 0.5" Loc-line extensions and have now added them and the system works extremely well. The water flow is now amazing and I was able to remove all of the powerheads in the tank. I will post before and after picture below. Thank you Anthony for this recommendation and I just wanted to let others know the mistakes I made so that they do not have to. Mark 1st Attempt Final Outcome
Happy reefing, Mark90gal In-wall Display, 30gal sump w/ refugium, MAS CR418 calcium reactor w/ Mag5 and Blueline CO2, Pacific Coast PS400-P protein skimmer w/ Mag5, Mag9.5 return, two 150 Phosban Reactor in series w/ Maxijet 1200 (one running carbon and one PhosBan), Ebo 200w & 300w heaters, 140lbs. LR, 80lbs. Carib-Sea aragonite substrate, PFO hoods Cooltouch MH ballasts running 2 x 400watt (20K) & Coralife 65w PC in custom hood with fan, Coralife 3-3/4watt mini moonlights, 8 jet Closed Loop System w/Reef-flo Dart, Aqua-Safe RO/DI, JBJ Auto Top Off unit w/Mag 5 return.
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wow... thank you for sharing your experience and images my friend. Indeed, many such things can be a bit of a challenge to us/layfolk when tackling the mathematics/friction calcs, etc for the first time. Threads like this are quite helpful to others indeed.
.Anthony Calfo
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Mark,
Can you provide a couple more shots or diagrams? I'm curious of top down to better follow plumbing and front of tank facing upward to see the returns inside the tank.
Thanks,
Will
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A few comments to help out and try and explain the big pre/post difference and perhaps even some future benefits for anyone else reading...
1 - My guess on the pre/post flow is the increase in output pipe diameter from .5in to 1.5in. Thats a cross sectional increase from .19625in^2 to 1.761in^2 - or an overall cross sectional increase of 9x (thats a huge difference).
2- The pump "inlet" is a seven feet long (not including turns). Generally pumps are made to push and are less effective pulling, especially over an extended distance like that.
3 - The system switches pipe diameter a few times, better would be to use the largest diameter along the runs and just "neck down" at the multiple inlets and outlets.
4 - Your "t"'s (if I'm looking right are being used for the return)... I think those are actually "y"'s. The difference is the T is an "even" split - or the inlet comes and you have two 90degree branches off of that. In a Y, you have the "inlet" (single side) which curves strongly towards one side. Those are typically used in non-pressurized drain systems in a house. If I am interpreting the last picture correctly, you are basically shooting all the water to the right side, any "return" water to the left is really just a by-product of the return pressure - the water wont "naturally" flow that way. And then again, some of those Y's to the outlets would cause the water to actually have to go "backwards" again. If you have a full circle up top there(? cant see the end), there is little reason, splitting and running two lines up each side I'd imagine would be more effective (but the circle might make directional agnosticism towards the y's seem ok).
Just a few tips if you are playing with it, or were wondering, or anyone else waslooking for some info...
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| Thank you all for your comments and especially thank you to Anthony for the idea and design. Will, I will try and take a couple of shots tonight and post tomorrow. I have a couple of shots of the front that are posted below. You can see the eight 0.5" nozzle heads just poking into the water by about 2". The 2" closed loop inlet pipe and internal overflow box are on the far left side. On the far right is the 0.75" loc-line return from the sump. 
Below you can see the 2" closed loop inlet pipe located (right beside the internal overflow box) and one of the two 1.5" strainers attached. The other strainer is pointing straight down. 
Mark
Happy reefing, Mark 90gal In-wall Display, 30gal sump w/ refugium, MAS CR418 calcium reactor w/ Mag5 and Blueline CO2, Pacific Coast PS400-P protein skimmer w/ Mag5, Mag9.5 return, two 150 Phosban Reactor in series w/ Maxijet 1200 (one running carbon and one PhosBan), Ebo 200w & 300w heaters, 140lbs. LR, 80lbs. Carib-Sea aragonite substrate, PFO hoods Cooltouch MH ballasts running 2 x 400watt (20K) & Coralife 65w PC in custom hood with fan, Coralife 3-3/4watt mini moonlights, 8 jet Closed Loop System w/Reef-flo Dart, Aqua-Safe RO/DI, JBJ Auto Top Off unit w/Mag 5 return.
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dougwilliams,
I agree that the intial intersection probably should be a true tee, but there's probably more than enough flow to *ahem* go around. 
Prisoner Number 3315
On parole for reef keeping
Currently doing "time" in a medium security breeding facility for the terminally insane
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| Good morning all, I could not find a straight T, I could only find a T that arced more to one side, my thought was that since the eight exit nozzles are all on the same loop and that the loop is completly closed, the pressure to each nozzle would equalize within seconds of the pump turning on. Due to the equalization of water pressure it would not matter if the T was not completely unbiased as to the water directional flow. As a precaution I installed a Loc-line valve at each nozzle so that if one nozzle exhibited a stronger flow than another, it could be turned down or restricted by the valve. Since commencing operation I have found that all eight nozzles seem to have equal pressure and restriction has not been necessary. As requested I shot a few additional pictures last night. Output line into tank from closed loop pump and sump return. 
Right side of tank showing 1.5" closed loop pipe, 2" closed loop intake U with priming plug and top of overflow stack. 
Lower right side of tank showing 1.5" closed loop pipe, 2" closed loop intake U with priming plug down to 90 degree bend and overflow stack with ball valve. 
Closed loop pump, Sequence Reef-flo Dart, 3600 gph at 0' head, non-pressure rated. 
Left side of tank inside showing overflow box, 2" closed loop intake pipe with 1.5" horizontal intake strainer and three of the eight closed loop nozzles. 
Right side of tank inside showing three of the eight closed loop nozzles, dual 0.75" Loc-line sump return outlet and veggie clip . 
I hope this helps. Mark
Happy reefing, Mark 90gal In-wall Display, 30gal sump w/ refugium, MAS CR418 calcium reactor w/ Mag5 and Blueline CO2, Pacific Coast PS400-P protein skimmer w/ Mag5, Mag9.5 return, two 150 Phosban Reactor in series w/ Maxijet 1200 (one running carbon and one PhosBan), Ebo 200w & 300w heaters, 140lbs. LR, 80lbs. Carib-Sea aragonite substrate, PFO hoods Cooltouch MH ballasts running 2 x 400watt (20K) & Coralife 65w PC in custom hood with fan, Coralife 3-3/4watt mini moonlights, 8 jet Closed Loop System w/Reef-flo Dart, Aqua-Safe RO/DI, JBJ Auto Top Off unit w/Mag 5 return.
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| Mark... if I may, a rockscape critique: the good: the low profile (allowing room for coral growth in the 1-3 year picture) of this rockscape is excellent. Most folks build waaaay too high initially like they are displaying rocks not corals I like the aesthetics of the slope here too - you can really let some tall soft coral/gorg grow magnificently on the low side in just a few years. the bad: you have easily 20-30% too much rock for this formation. It is a pile really... and way too packed/dense. This will severely handicap you in the long term as a small amount of solid waste matter penetrates the rockscape day after day and leads to a brutual nuisance organism bloom in 12-18 months. You can set your watch to it. It will happen faster in fact if this rockscape is furthermore built against the back wall (never... never build your rockscape against any wall of the aquarium... the restriction of water flow over time is a principal cause of orgqanic buildup and nuisance algae blooms after some months pass by)
. Anthony Calfo
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| Hi Anthony, Thank you for taking the time to critique the aquascaping, this is very helpful. I really did not want the standard wall of rock, I wanted it to look more natural. Just to clarify, none of my rockwork touches any of the aquarium walls to allow proper water flow throughout the tank. Are you saying that I should remove 20% - 30% of the LR? I had thought that my tank was a little under weight in the LR department to properly utilize beneficial bacterial filtration. I am planning in the next month to remove about 70% of the button polyps as they are becoming to invasive. This will cause me to remove the LR that they have attached to as well. I was then planning to buy about 20lbs. of LR to replace the loss. How would you suggest that I change the aquascaping? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Mark
Happy reefing, Mark 90gal In-wall Display, 30gal sump w/ refugium, MAS CR418 calcium reactor w/ Mag5 and Blueline CO2, Pacific Coast PS400-P protein skimmer w/ Mag5, Mag9.5 return, two 150 Phosban Reactor in series w/ Maxijet 1200 (one running carbon and one PhosBan), Ebo 200w & 300w heaters, 140lbs. LR, 80lbs. Carib-Sea aragonite substrate, PFO hoods Cooltouch MH ballasts running 2 x 400watt (20K) & Coralife 65w PC in custom hood with fan, Coralife 3-3/4watt mini moonlights, 8 jet Closed Loop System w/Reef-flo Dart, Aqua-Safe RO/DI, JBJ Auto Top Off unit w/Mag 5 return.
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| Hello mark, I belive I've seen 3-4" recommended as minimum distance between rock and any wall in the tank. Don't feel too bad, I had to rework my 'scape too. I think Anthony mentions it in one of his flow articles or in one of the threads on flow in his links section. hth, Matt
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