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Last Login: 6/11/2009 8:44:38 AM
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| Last week I was shown a price list from a major distributor who is on the "left coast". These are the prices Retailers are paying. The most expensive nem was something from Vietnam going for $20 each, the BTA were $8, the RBTA's $10 and the Condi only $4. I was surprised of the small price difference between BTA's and RBTA's. So to be safe I would mark down those prices by 24% to 50%. Start your break-even points at $4 and go to $10 to see how many you need to sale. You have to know those numbers to see if your plan will work. Remember volume cures all. I get soooooooo tried of reading post on other boards and hearing people say "You can't make any money doing that" or "Your going to go broke, no wholesale distributor will buy from you" etc etc etc. Even my LFS owner when i told him what I was going to do the first words out of his mouth was "you not going to make any money doing that, if you do it you have to do it out of love" and in the same breath he recommended Mr Calfo's book on Coral Propagation "I have that one at the house". I know he didn't mean any harm by his statements I guess thats why he whipped out the price list to show me how low he pays for them. On livestock he works on the 1% rule, if it cost $10 I'll sell it for $20 ((1 x cost=markup) + (cost)= selling price)). Prior to that visit I was just going to do a detailed financial report and make a working model on a spread sheet but when I left his store I went to Comp-usa and bought a program to do a business plan because I know that no one believes the numbers they need a book to look at. I am no stranger to business plans I have wrote them from scratch from 1 year out to 10 years and just didn't think I would need to do one on such a low cost simple turn key business such as this but it seems I need to prove a point. Sorry for the rant just needed to get that off my chest. Does any one have any info on shipping supplies? That looks like it will be the most expensive part of the whole operation besides the actual shipping.
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 11/17/2009 10:33:37 PM
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| So did he have a tank full of rose anemones that he was selling for $20/ea? If so, you could make a nice profit right now by just buying and reselling them. If not, a little skepticism might be in order. - Mark
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aries4u (1/30/2007)
Last week I was shown a price list from a major distributor who is on the "left coast". These are the prices Retailers are paying. The most expensive nem was something from Vietnam going for $20 each, the BTA were $8, the RBTA's $10 and the Condi only $4. I was surprised of the small price difference between BTA's and RBTA's. So to be safe I would mark down those prices by 24% to 50%. Start your break-even points at $4 and go to $10 to see how many you need to sale. You have to know those numbers to see if your plan will work. Remember volume cures all.Is this something you wrote or is this a "post on [another] board?" I'm assuming you're planning on aquacultured anemones, correct? When you say you are going to mark down prices by 24%-50%, you are talking about your price to the reseller, correct? You intend to differntiate your product (anemones) on price? I get soooooooo tried of reading post on other boards and hearing people say "You can't make any money doing that" or "Your going to go broke, no wholesale distributor will buy from you" etc etc etc. Take heart, this just means you'll have less competition! Even my LFS owner when i told him what I was going to do the first words out of his mouth was "you not going to make any money doing that, if you do it you have to do it out of love" and in the same breath he recommended Mr Calfo's book on Coral Propagation "I have that one at the house". I know he didn't mean any harm by his statements I guess thats why he whipped out the price list to show me how low he pays for them. On livestock he works on the 1% rule, if it cost $10 I'll sell it for $20 ((1 x cost=markup) + (cost)= selling price)). Prior to that visit I was just going to do a detailed financial report and make a working model on a spread sheet but when I left his store I went to Comp-usa and bought a program to do a business plan because I know that no one believes the numbers they need a book to look at. I am no stranger to business plans I have wrote them from scratch from 1 year out to 10 years and just didn't think I would need to do one on such a low cost simple turn key business such as this but it seems I need to prove a point. Sorry for the rant just needed to get that off my chest. Yes, you should do a business plan even for so "small" an endevour because you never know where it may lead and having an established plan makes you more prepared. Does any one have any info on shipping supplies? That looks like it will be the most expensive part of the whole operation besides the actual shipping. I cannot help you here, but I hope you are successful.
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Here in NY I have NEVER seen an RBTA for $20--in an LFS it will be anywhere from $40-100 depending on size, and even from fellow hobbyists who have anemones splitting int heir tanks, the lowest I've seen is $35. If they are $20 each I agree--buy as many as you can and tell the rest of us so we can do the same!  Christine
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Last Login: 3/13/2009 2:53:38 PM
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Your question about affordable shipping supplies brings up another point to consider in your equation. Yes, retailers may pay $8 per BTA, but how much are they paying in shipping to get those BTA's to their store? They are going to add the shipping cost into the retail price and pass that expense on to their customers as well.
And FWIW the cheapest RBTA I've seen was the one I bought for $50, and not from a retail store either. In an LFS I've never seen one for less than $79.99. I bought a tiny GBTA from an LFS for $24.95 but their next shipment in was priced at $54.99 for the same size/color animal.
But seeing a pricelist is an eye-opener, I agree. I've worked my break-even analysis around the pricelists I've been lucky enough to get to see and it's not overnight profitability, no. But it does get there.
-Sonja
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TANSTAAFL
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| Indeed.. there is a lot that not being said/read in the numbers. At face value... West coast landed BTAs (vaious colors) run the gamut from $6 - $30 per (some higher for large and exceptional color). Some issues include: - lot pricing to get the lower end prices (you, the amemone farmer, must - and wants/needs - endure/enjoy the same dyamic. If the shop buys 5 anemones off of you, they might pay $15 wholesale. But if they take 500 anemones... you charge them $6-9 dollars so they can job them or just enjoy the better margin for the risk they took in buying so many. As a farmer... you should welcome these high volume deals) - size/color ideed are low with the low prices - fluctuations... the low end has been quite low indeed since an Asian harbour has allowed extensive collections (much like Fiji did with live rock in the 1990s) for next to no cost prior to the core of engineers/equivs coming in and deepeing (read: destroying habitat). Thus... collectors get free/cheap animals for not much more than the cost of shipping (subsidized no less in the case of early Fiji live rock!) to spare some animals lives. That is what has been happening with the cheap, though poor colored, BTAs weve been seeing for over a year now. But that will end soon.
. Anthony Calfo
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Last Login: 6/11/2009 8:44:38 AM
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| Appears my communications skills are not up to par here. "So did he have a tank full of rose anemones that he was selling for $20/ea? If so, you could make a nice profit right now by just buying and reselling them. If not, a little skepticism might be in order. - Mark "
No he did not have any RBTA's I have only seen 2 in his tanks in the last 6 mos. and I asked him did he if he had trouble getting them and his reply was no "It is just one of those things that I over look when ordering" he has a standard policy if you don't see it I will get it for you. "Is this something you wrote or is this a "post on [another] board?" I'm assuming you're planning on aquacultured anemones, correct? When you say you are going to mark down prices by 24%-50%, you are talking about your price to the reseller, correct? You intend to differntiate your product (anemones) on price?" 1. neither it is what I saw on SDC sheet
2. yes I plan on aquaculture anemones
3. when I refer to marking down by 24 to 50% I mean just that. The distributor is selling to reailtors for $8 and $10, the distributor is going to make a profit so what do you think he is going to pay the farmer?.In my area I don't see any way to make any money selling to retailors. There is one LFS in my city the next closest one is 2 hours away so selling in bulk to a distributor is what my plan is. "Here in NY I have NEVER seen an RBTA for $20--in an LFS it will be anywhere from $40-100 depending on size, and even from fellow hobbyists who have anemones splitting int heir tanks, the lowest I've seen is $35. If they are $20 each I agree--buy as many as you can and tell the rest of us so we can do the same! Christine "
I'm somewhat in agreement with you. I told him I have seen RBTA's close to $100 on the net when you figure in shipping and the surcharge they apply. He is the one who told me that on his livestock he just dbls his cost. Most of his corals are $40 he has some yellow tangs about the size of tennis balls for $20. I am taking him at his word until he proves his self wrong. Don't take my word for it ask your own LSF owner for his or her list. Cigarettes are $2.60 a pack here,they are $8 in NYC, they only cost 24 cents a pack to make go figure.
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Oh I completely agree that selling to distributors is the way to go. I'm lucky enough to live an hour's drive away from one. Even getting twice the price from retailers it's so much more work to package and ship out the small orders, than large shipments to distributors. And I'm looking at selling *knock on wood* several hundred bta's per month of four color morphs, no retail store is going to want, have space for, or be able to move that kind of volume.
Not at all trying to argue with you, I hope I didn't come across that way. Any and all information and experience shared is appreciated.
-Sonja
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TANSTAAFL
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| even when they (critics/naysayers) are correct about the low prices in a given market (the LFS/hometown in this case)... they fail to see or recognize that their backyard is not necessarily representative of the market averages. Quite the contray in this case. The prices we see in big cities with direct flights (read: cheaper products for these reasons) do not compare with the vastly higher prices paid in medim and small cities across America. And even in this case (NY cited) it may not represent the rest of the city or region. That all said... proof is in the pudding. The poo-pooing LFS was not offering uber-cheap anemones. He/she was just naysaying IMO based on the little info known here. Else, they would have cited their in store examples and/or history of selling cheap anemones  I've been to several hunded pet stores in the 100+ cites I've visited/lectured in since 2001. The average retail price for a handsome coloed BTA is categorically over $100. Exceptional specimens are regularly spotted at over $200 in stores with otherwise "fair" (market average) prices.
. Anthony Calfo
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1. neither it is what I saw on SDC sheet
2. yes I plan on aquaculture anemones
3. when I refer to marking down by 24 to 50% I mean just that. The distributor is selling to reailtors for $8 and $10, the distributor is going to make a profit so what do you think he is going to pay the farmer?.In my area I don't see any way to make any money selling to retailors. There is one LFS in my city the next closest one is 2 hours away so selling in bulk to a distributor is what my plan is. This is all very interesting to me. You are effectively a price taker, at the mercy of the distribution company. This is a characteristic of a commoditized market, at least on your end, and I wonder what type of pricing power the distributor has in relation to the LFSes. Am I correct in assuming the supply chain works like this or are there other hands in the pie? You --> Distributor --> LFS(es) Unfortunately for you, there are many "yous," correct? How many distribution companies are available to you?
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