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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 2/1/2009 8:44:56 PM
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Hi Anthony!
Thanks for your thoughts on my quarantine question last month. We’ve now increased our standard quarantine from 4 to 8 weeks. My wife and I have learned (the hard way  ) that extra patience at the front end is far better than tearing down a 375-gallon tank (350 lbs live rock) to capture sick, elusive occupants.
Onto discussions about a gorgonian species tank…
For the past few months I’ve been researching a heavy filter-feeding tank. Fruition of this tank is probably 2 years away.
pause for commercial endorsement ... Your excellent book, “Reef Invertebrates” has many ideas that I am still synthesising to incorporate into my design ... now returning to our regular show 
The match of refugium life and feeding requirements of the main tank is one area that has not been finalised yet.
System Aspects:
- 90 gallon glass bowfront (48”x18”x29” tall)
- 17 gallon acrylic sump (11”x24”x15” tall) (Mak 4, perhaps manifold return)
- Tunze wave box (uncertain if the effect in a 4 foot tank will give sufficient motion)
- HOB plankton generator, gravity fed to tank (ala EcoSystem), custom 12 gallons 36”x4”x20” tall
- moderate skimming (eg. Euro-Reef CS135 or CS180), off during targeted feeding sessions (limited to a 24” height skimmer)
- lighting, 260 watt of Power Compact
- 25% water changes weekly, considering a remote DSB (currently installing one on our 375 gallon)
- 1” sugar sand, 100 lbs live rock, 2 bommies with caves and overhangs
Desired Occupants:
- non-photosynthetic gorgonians (we especially like the Acalycigorgia Blue Sea Fan), ~10 show pieces
- Crinoids (feather stars) ~2 individuals (although I’ve not read about a lot of success yet)
- assorted azooxanthellate corals (eg, Goniopora, Tubastrea, Dendronephthya)
- minimal fish (maybe Pipefish, Seahorses, Mandarin)
Feeding Regime:
- plankton generating HOB refugium
- frozen and live, such as oyster eggs, rotifers, phyto-feast, cyclop-eeze, DT’s (continuous dosing and target feeding)
A couple questions that I’ve been tossing around at the design level:
- Given the planned occupants, would you recommend more water flow?
- Do you feel that the plankton generator is large enough?
- Will the benefit of continuous dose feeding be noticeably hampered with the skimmer running?
- Do you think the skimmer could be downsized with the aggressive water change regime (or vice versa)?
I welcome thoughts and comments on this developing theme.
Thanks
___________
Lyle
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Group: Moderators
Last Login: 11/19/2009 1:09:50 PM
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| cheers, my friend... and wow! Fab to see how well thought out your first draft plan is for this specialized display is. Overall you are on the right track. Some comments regarding... flow: it's rather hard to ever have too much. And some gorgonians are extremely needy for high flow. Granted... exceedingly linear can be rough... but the case of sea fans they need it. At any rate, do aspire to produce the "sps" volume of 40-60X tank turnover in this tank. The wavebox sounds very nice, but I fear it will wreak havoc with any downstream skimmer. A CLM gets my vote here for fine tuned control of effluent tees. If you can deliver at least 4000 gph after loss calculations through a 1-1.5" manifold (12 tees... 4 front/back, 2 ea. sides... 2-4 plugged as needed, yielding ~400pgh per running effluent tee) I'd say you will be nicely in the ballpark for a filter-feeder display like this. Pick you pump wisely... noise is an issue with many of the cheaper ones. refugium: Chaetomorpha ball gets my vote for easy and productive (plankton). 100 watts of warm daylight (5-7k K) will be fine here. Be sure to illuminate this on a reverse photopoeriod than the display tank for added pH stability feeding: live... as much as possible. Bottled DTs or culture your own phyto from starters (See Florida Aqua Farms for kits). Phyto-feast... your call, but I do not care for it (will not take free samplres to even try). Hatching baby Artemia (you can buy it decapsulated from places like seahorsesource.com... just pour int her tank and it hatches without shells in less than 12 hours!). Cyclop-eeze... fabulous. Rotifers... also tremendous (supplies also from Florida Aqua Farms). Copepod cultures/bottles to innoculate the tanks would be great. Avoid adding any fishes to the system for at least 4 months to let crustaceans really establish. Using a drip/doser for any of these items would be optimal since many gorgs feed continuously or at variable times. Livestock: some pipefishes are doable, most are not yet... mandarinfishes just are not long lived without extraordinary care... captive bred seahorses are now commonly available, eating frozen foods on delivery and simply fabulous. High marks for the latter. Draco marine has been producing some gorgeous specimens (MDlive sometimes offers them) Looking forward to seeing this progress in time 
. Anthony Calfo
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Group: Forum Members
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| Pansy-paws: I looked into the Tunze wavebox for my setup and decided against it. The idea is great, the water movement in fabulous, but I felt the cycle times were too short and the water movement appeared unnatural for what I was trying to accomplish. My tank in planning as well is going to feature gorgonias, feather dusters, sponges and other filter feeders. I am aiming for a partially photo-synthetic tank. I felt the gorgonias and sponge would benfit more from a high-steady flow as opposed to the up-down side-side flow that the wavebox provides. I feel the wavebox has its place in very shallow water reef setups where the corals/inverts are exposed to crashing waves. At the moment, I am looking at some Tunze Streams setup on a lunar simulated cycle to give me a back-forth current, but I am still working out the details. Anthony has a strong vote for pointing two at each other so I am considering my options. Chris BTW...ditto on the book, it is helping me streamline/finalize my plans, along with a post over in Eric's section.
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 2/1/2009 8:44:56 PM
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clsanchez77
Good thought. I have two Streams on an 8 foot tank, and love them, but was thinking that they'd be too powerful in a 4 foot. On second thought, perhaps setting up a couple 6100's opposing one another on separate controllers would provide the idea turbulent flow. Certainly quieter than a 4000 gph pump in our living room (my significant other would be giving me the evil eye  )
Maybe a seperate flow regime could be established for a sea fan area, where laminar flow would prevail. Lots to think about ...
Anthony
Thanks for your comments. As for reference books, I have Soft Corals by Fatherree, Marine Invertebrates by Wilkens and Birkholz, and plan to get Soft Corals and Sea Fans by Fabricius and Alderslade.
What reference sources would you recommend for researching gorgonian tanks.
Regards
___________
Lyle
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Group: Moderators
Last Login: 11/19/2009 1:09:50 PM
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| there is very little hobby literature that discusses gorgonian husbandry in aquaria beyond the minimal info that we know/believe. Instead, you will largely have to scour the dive and field guides for data about location on thge reefs among corals of (better) known care/husbandry to make educated guesses and experimental inferences. Looking through some scientific papers on feeding mechanisms for species when available too will also clue you in to the needs of other gorgs based on relations, polyp structures, etc. Alas... you are going to have to go at a good bit of this alone. Looking forward to seeing you progress/share info. Please do consider investing in a mesoscope, jewelers loupe, etc to better assess what if anythign is being eaten by the species you keep... if they release it later or are they actually digesting it, etc. kindly, Anthony
. Anthony Calfo
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 11/19/2009 9:42:09 PM
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| Pansy-paws, This is a very interesting idea, please keep us updated as things progress. Everything I've read points to feather stars being nearly impossible to keep. Maybe you could try the gorgonians first and once you've kept those alive for a year or so then think about the feather stars? Maybe by then there might be a little more information available on how to keep feather stars. Have you considered the new Vortech pumps from icecap for your design? I haven't tried one, but they say it is supposed to be a very large wave force instead of a point source like a maxijet for flow. Let us know if you find any scientific literature articles on what gorgonians eat, I would be interested in seeing them. Thanks, Brian
7 years FW, 5 years SW
Education is the solution to pollution, not dilution.
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 2/1/2009 8:44:56 PM
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Sounds like my gorgonian theme will present some challenges ... yeah, I'm up for it 
As I discover information which supports the evolution of this theme, I'll make sure to share any insights.
And the Vortech powerhead, now that looks interesting, a competitor to the Streams. Have to see what price point they arrive at ... 
Regards
___________
Lyle
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