Welcome to your new home!!

I have been around around over at that other place asking questions and I just think I am missing smoething here.

Ihave a 105 gallon tank with 30 or 40 gallon sump.

Tank was set up in November of 2003.  I have over 100 pounds of Live rock and 6 inches of live sand.  sump also has live rock and I just added some macro with 24 hour lighting.

I have a cheap berlin skimmer that has never worked till problems occured 5 months ago.

My problem is that my tank has been over ran with hair algea....I know, I know...another hair algea person.

For almost 2 years my tank looked fine with nice corals, fish and rock was covered with coraline.

Then the day came when I switched my lights from 260 PC to 500 watts of MH, ice cap ballasts and 2 x 250watt XM 10,000s.  I started out with lights on for 3 hours per day and slowly added an hour every few days.  These new light are about 10 inches off.

Some corals never opened again and others melted away within weeks of my light changes.  I am down to one toad stool that has never really opened up and is getting smaller.

Within a week or two of the light change, hair algea over took everything.  Now it covers the rocks, come sand and all the glass wxcept the front.  I have taken the rocks out twice and scrubbed them clean only for it to come back ASAP.

I have listened to every suggestion and I am getting frustrated as nothing is helping.  I spend money on snails and clean up crews and the snails end up dying.

I bouth a 6100 Tunze stream for more flow.  This only killed my 4 remaining fish within a half hour.  The Tunze created a huge algea whirlpool.  Not sure what exactly killed the fish.  Maybe not enough oxigen from the algea whirlpool.

I installed a phosban reactor with phosban.

My parameters have always been fine.  Except when the algea broke out in the beginning I had a low alk readling.  I brought it back up with baking soda and it has been fine ever since.

Readings are always around:

PO4 = 0
Ca = 500 ppm
Alk = 140 ppm or 2.8 meq/l or 8 dKH
PH = 8.2
NO3 = < 5

I was doing weekly water changes.  Stop wasting my money today and I have turned the lights and RO unit off.  I am just about ready to throw all away.

I guess I am looking for any last ideas before I sell everything.

No one has realated this to me switching my lights.  But why would all my corals start shrinking once I switched?  And why would all this hair algea start then?

Since I have not had fish, I do not feed.  Also since there is only 1 coral and one coral banded shrimp, I am leaving the lights off.  Do not see a reason to keep them on if everything is going to pot.

Sorry for the rant.

Any ideas?

Thanks for your time!

Without a skimmer producing daily skimmate for over a year, you needed to have another means of aggressive nutrient export to keep up with the daily waste being produced (imported via food, etc.).

Your algae bloom was caused by the organic levels crossing a threshold from the monthly accumulation over time. Even if you were doing weekly %20 water changes... you were still leaving 80% behind each week.

The increase in light over aged water of high organic load was just the catalyst for the bloom.

The deep sand bed likely too is ruined to some extent. Again... without that skimmer (and aggressive water flow like those Tunze streamers) to keep solids in suspension, nutrients slowly but surely have been sinking into your substrate.

A number of other factors will have made this worse including eagerness to stock the tank with fishes in the first 2-3 months, lack of weekly carbon exchange (or ozone use), admitting the thawed pack juice from frozen foods into the tank instead of straining it away (yikes! it is rocket fuel in time for nuisance algae).

My advice frankly is to bite the bullet and break it down  and set up clean new. New seawater and new or no sand. The rock can be scoured and reused... but adding some fresh is a fab idea. Keep your lights off for the first 2-4 weeks until you get that skimmer modified to actually work daily  or just get another skimmer (ASM, Aqua C or EuroReef get my vote). Consider adding a refugium, but do resist adding fishes as long as possible.

This will be a good start.

Getting involved with a local hobby club will be priceless for unbiased, intelligent and local support. What big city are you nearest to?

Also check out my list of "fav links..." stickied atop this forum. Especially the links under "discussions" (very practical dvice and info)

.

Anthony Calfo

Thank you so much for your wonderful help!!

That other site, which we will not name, has been fine however I get such a vast array of different opinions that it seems like I need to do about 20 things and none of it was working.

As stated before, I am ready to throw this whole tank away.

I guess I could try one last thing, which is to start over as you mention.  I hate to do this because I have a huge maze of worm tunnels in my sand.  Throwing it all way and recuring my rock would mean I probably would not have any thing to get my sand started again.

In your opinion, there is no way to keep the current sand in there?  As mentioned, I have the lights off and no food is entering.  Wouldn't over time the excess nutrients and so on get depleted?  Would it be worth letting the tank sit for a couple of months in the dark to see what will happen?  Or do you think this would be a waste of time.

As far as starting all over, do you suggest throwing the rock away or could I recure it outside my tank and then put it back in?  Or could I just take it out clean it and then let it dry outside of water( I guess that would kind of kill all the benificial stuff).  I have heard people talk about cooking their rocks for a couple of months and then putting back in the tank to find the algea comes back.  I guess this could be from their sand as well.

As far as the sand goes, I could take it all out and bleach it and then let it dry for weeks while the rock is curing, then start over with everything.  find some sand from local club memebers to help restart the sand.

By the way, Cleveland is where I am.  I just went to the first meeting of Cleveland local Reef club last weekend.  They are becoming a very useful place as mentioned.

Replacing the Berlin sounds like a must.

also, never thought about the liquid from the frozen fish foods.  Ya, it is like pouring maple syrup in your tank.

I was a little emotional when I wrote the first message to you and I might be calming down enough to try something before giving up completly.

Thank you so much!!

I do not have a TDS meter.

Anthony, one last wuestion.  you state not to add fish which I kind of thought so, but what about a clean up crew of snails and crabs?

Thanks

I purchased and "reconditioned" a fair amount of live rock from someone who got out of the hobby due to a severe hair algae problem.  To clean the rocks, I employed cleanup crews, algae eating inverts and fish, and tried scrubbing the rocks all without much success.

What finally did work was putting the rock in an unlit tub with a heater and powerhead for about six weeks.  Every two weeks or so I would blow off the rocks with a powerhead, siphon out the accumulated detrius, and change nearly all the water.

If you do something like that, your rock will be fine to use afterward.  As to the sand, IMO it has to go.  I spent a fair amount of time trying to "wash" some sand including trying to filter it through various sized nylon mesh.  It's not worth the effort.

My experience only here.  If I were you, and my advice differs significantly from Anthony's... I'd follow his.

- Mark

Thanks

- Mark

I must say too that I rarely recommend a complete break down. It's generally not necessary. But you provided very detailed tank history and my experience/educated opinion, if I may, is that you will likely save more time, work less correctively and get back to enjoying your hobby sooner by giving up a day or two to start from scratch again.

If the sand bed is truly polluted - you see a real cloud of sediment/debris kick up when disturbed versus "damping down" quick like when snorkeling/scuba diving - then it will be an ongoing and significant source of fuel for nuisance organisms to grow and feed from.

While it is a shame to lose/waste those worms and infauna... they will come back easily. You can just save a small bucketful of lightly rinsed aged sand to innoculate the new that you use. However... if you really want to save these creatures and are still willing to do a little more work, then pull all the live rock out and set aside for a good scour and rinse (seawater) and then proceed to stir the sand vigorously while siphoning the tank water out slowly. Most of the benthic creatures will stay or drop down while you remove a significant amount of the (now) suspended sediments. The caveat here is to drain away all the display water (and perhaps add a small bit more afterwards for another rinse and purge).

Then, with rinsed sand and scoured rocks, you can stack the tank nicely (while dry) then refill it for a 100% water change.

As for the skimmer... I really would not use or work with a Berlin on a reef tank where nutrients are generally lower than fish only tanks and the need for an easy to tune and consistent skimmer is crucial IMO.

I'm truly glad to see you may not give up as well. It really can be an easy (albeit strict) hobby. The C-Sea reef club folks are a very good gang. And if you care to drive to Pittsburgh we have a great club here too. Eric Borneman is coming here in February BTW... a very good show. And a third MD expert here (Steve Pro) is also from Pittsburgh! Check us/them out at www.pmas.org

kindly, Anth-

.

Anthony Calfo

I will have to test the sand with a nice kick of my hand.  Will see what comes up.

I guess I am not afraid to try one more time.  So you see no need to cure the rock for a few weeks?  Just rinse off and put back in?

Been thinking about a Deltec skimmer or maybe an Aqua-C or Euro Reef.  Any you suggest?

Did not realize you guys were all in Pittsburgh.  If I stick around, might be worth the trip to go to a meeting.

Eric is actually scheduled to be at our next meeting in February as well.  That would nice.

Well......lots to think about.  Better go and buy some beer!!

Thanks again!!