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 Posted 1/14/2006 4:52:36 PM |
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Well, sure. I wouldn't use cow hoofs (gelatin), and would probably steer towards the seaweed based agar, but I don't really find the need to cause any more clumping if it is all mixed and blended right so as to provide a variety of sizes.
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Eric Borneman
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| Posted 1/14/2006 11:12:18 PM |
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geletin would kind of defeat the purpose wouldn't it? you put all this very fine, 5 micron particles in and then clump it all together with geletin, not a good idea to me. fine for the fish but not the corals.
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Carl-
We are all stardust
Sun powered reef
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| Posted 1/15/2006 5:18:02 AM |
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Absolutely...I had assumed they were speaking of it in terms of the fish.
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Eric Borneman
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| Posted 1/16/2006 8:03:50 AM |
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Eric Borneman (1/15/2006)
Absolutely...I had assumed they were speaking of it in terms of the fish.Yes, you are correct. Thanks for the help.
Peter
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| Posted 1/16/2006 5:12:41 PM |
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Maybe I missed this in there, but should the thawed frozen foods (artemia, mysis, etc) be strained before adding into the mix? I have read from Anthony that this juice included in the mix is not great to throw in your aquarium. I think the specific comment related to it containing all kinds of stuff that will encourage undesirable algae to grow.
Thoughts?
Paul Thompson
South Ascot, Berkshire, England
Board - West London Reef Club
Webmaster - Central Oklahoma Marine Aquarium Society
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| Posted 1/16/2006 6:13:04 PM |
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I disagree with that. These very fine particles feed a lot of things, and the juice itself helps provide a great feeding response. Of course, if you are prone to algae issues, or do not have strong export, this may be a problem, but I have never had an issue.
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Eric Borneman
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| Posted 1/17/2006 5:23:18 AM |
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| Eric: i made a batch of your food a couple of weeks ago. i have fed it instead of the usual cubes i was feeding. what a great response from the corals. some of the SPS that had never put out long feeding tentacles did. in fact one bubble coral has extended it's feeding tentacles much further than before and last night i noticed it had one attached to a nearby SPS coral and had killed a 1" piece of the SPS. this same bubble coral is much healthier and fuller in general. i will get in there today to move it. Question-with increased feeding isn't there bound to be a problem with increased nutrients, especially nitrates in our systems? i have a lot of different kinds of sponges on my LR. i just set up a RDSB in a 55gallon with 8" of sand last week. i think that may help. so far i am not giving more food than before, just different. i would like to increase the amount as i have read you give much more than what i am doing presently.
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Carl-
We are all stardust
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| Posted 1/17/2006 6:15:22 AM |
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Hi Carl:
I have explained this before on other forums, but I'm glad you brought it up so I can explain it here.
So, I don't want to generalize to every tank, but, in general, I think reef tanks are capable of processing much much more food than the average aquarist feeds. A long time ago, when there were not efficient skimmers and people didn't keep reef tanks and tanks were fish only consisting of dead substrate (bacteria and algae coated) and fish and glass and non-export filtration (no skimming), was when the "rule" of don't overfeed was instilled. Having kept a freshwater tank, and experimental tanks without the standard "reef tank" design, it's true. If you overfeed, you end up with nutrient problems.
But, this is also the "rule" we are told and accept when we first start a reef tank. So, we feed x amount, and our systems equilibrate to deal with that volume of food. There will be no more and no less life than can be supported by the food that is either produced within or added to the aquarium. If you add more, there will be an increase in nutrients (unless the skimmer is just really effective, in which case it may not really register). But, if you feed more, eventually, you will see nutrients start to climb, and the first things that respond through fast growth are bacteria, cyanobacteria, and fast growing algae (single celled diatoms, turfs, etc.). Eventually, the system reaches a new higher steady state level, and everything is again limited. The nutrient levels in the tank disappear again. You can see this over and over again, and it is my experience that most reef tanks can handle a ridiculously large amount of food. Between the skimming, the corals, filter feeders, sponges, bacteria, coralline, worms, microfauna, meiofauna, etc., there are a lot of mouths. With this extra nutrition comes more reproduction, too....i.e. more mouths...which need more food. Eventually, of course, you reach a point where you have max'ed out what you can add, but you will be surprised just how much this is.
Now, when you start feeding more, most people see an algal increase or cyano, and back off immediately. Don't. This is the same phenomenon as happened when the tank was first set up. Its a community response to more nutrients. It's like cycling the tank. First come the diatoms, then the red slime, then the hair algae, then it dies, then corallines take over. Every year in the ocean, there is a cycle in the spring of a phytoplankton bloom, followed by a zooplankton bloom. Same sort of thing here. Now, the one caveat is that many nuisance algae are strong space competitors that you do not want to become heavily established during these periods. Eventually, they will take up the new nutrient additions and self-limit, but as plants are autotrophic light alone can keep them going. So, you have a tank with no measurable nutrients in the water column, but can still have a lot of algae. Now what? Well, the primary control to avoid this on reefs - and in tanks - is herbivory. So, you get to go purchase a new tang that you wanted, or you get some more snails, or an urchin. If done slowly, and you already have enough herbivores, just the increase in microherbivory by larger numbers of amphipods may be enough to control it. Or, maybe your super skimmer and ozone are in place, and whatever you pour in and is not eaten quickly is just pulled straight out. I have seen some tanks that I think could have a constant drip of food all day and all night, simply due to the export power.
Anyway, start slowly, be patient, and within a year you'll probably find you can dump ridiculously large amounts of food in the tank without any measurable nutrients in the tank.
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Eric Borneman
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| Posted 1/18/2006 6:15:38 AM |
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| Eric: thank you for your thoughtful reply. i will continue to feed your homemade food. after all, i have a few pounds of it now. and the whole tank loves it. i will try slowly, fearlessly increasing the amount. i do have a lot of coralline algae, black, yellow, and white sponges and forams in the tank. i will keep skimming. i have a EuroReef skimmer and an Aqua C EV-400 skimmer on this tank. i will keep an eye on nitrates. as the feeding level increases should i see an increase in nitrates? how high is too high? i have also just set up the modified rdsb that has 8" sand and some LR. my tank was well established for several years before it was my tank. minimal feeding. after it became mine i fed more than the previous owner did. just fish food, algae sheets and cubes of various types, mysis, etc. i did get cyano in a low flow area of my sump( i put LR in the sump which blocked the flow and a light ) and then cyano was also in the tank and bleaching of several SPS corals. lost a couple, a couple others are mostly bleached. nitrates over 20. all the soft corals were and are fine with the exception of a brain coral that had cyano on the septa and i thought i was going to loose it. since i have started the "Borneman recipe" feeding two weeks ago it has recovered to the point where almost all the septa are healed over with new tissue. right now i am feeding twice a day. 4-5 sq inches of algae sheet and one cube of the recipe at each feeding. to increase the amt it seems like it would be better to add another feeding instead of more at one of the two feedings. what do you think?
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Carl-
We are all stardust
Sun powered reef
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| Posted 1/18/2006 6:54:16 AM |
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I can't easily answer your question. Every tank is different, but it sounds as though you have good export. I also don't know what to say in regards to what is too high in terms of nitrate and phosphate or their role in producing the cyano blooms or what is "too high." If you had asked me this a few months ago, I could have given you a response, but our salt study has me shrugging my shoulders right not as to everything in regards to nutrients and coral v algal v cyanobacterial growth. I can't elaborate further, yet.
In terms of feeding more vs more often, I think more often is a more natural emulation, but have no evidence to say that it is actually more beneficial to the tank.
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Eric Borneman
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