Forums / TEAM Marine Depot / Corals and Coral Reefs - by Eric Borneman / red algae taking over! / Latest Posts

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:38:45 GMT

Yes, corallines are red algae. Yes, they are generally a good thing to have growing in the tank.

RE: red algae taking over!

DC_APEX — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:44:42 GMT

Hi all, are Coralline algae part of the red algae family? I guess Coralline algae is good for the tank, my tank is only 7 mos. old, but the Coralline algae is all over the tank, I had a hard time try to clean it off the glass (acrylic) wall.

--------------------------------------------------

My setup:

210 gal. display tank w/145lbs LR & 4" LS(included Plenum) Outer Orbit 48" 2-150w HQI 2-130w actinic 6-lunar, 34 gal sump w/ ASM G-3 protein skimmer, refugium w/LR. LS & macro algae.

Live Stock: 3 damsels, 1 royal grammer, 1 twin spot goby, 1 Lawnmower Blenny, 3 Ocellaris Clownfish, 1 swallowtail angle, 2 Dragonet, 1 open brain green, 1 green mushrooms, 2 pumping xenia, 1 star polyps green, 1 starburst polyps, 1 finger leather, 2 trumpet, 1 flower gonophores, 1green red brain.

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:34:22 GMT

That helps some - but I also need to see the opening and the operculum to the snail. Thanks!

RE: red algae taking over!

Mr.Firemouth — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:05:27 GMT

As long as the spines are not drooping or falling off your urchin it is still healthy and may just be a slow eater. The spines are their health indicator.

Eric, here is the ic of the snail shells. I believe it is an Astrea and not a trochus as the throchus have bigger ridges on them......

Eating

An old shell of the same species....

I hope you know their identity so I can order more!LOL

RE: red algae taking over!

Mxett — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:30:56 GMT

Unfortunately this red algae has invaded my new 4'x4' display as well. I used the LR from my previous tank thinking I had the problem beaten. (DOH!)

I had some success with a fox-faced rabbit fish on this previous tank, and also have one in my new tank, but he just picks at it occasionally.

I have recently added a purple tang ($$$) as well so I will see if he can help the fox-face get on top of it, as he is copying the fox-face.

This new larger system has been going since Dec 07 so the water chemistry is pretty stable now. N & P measure 0 (salifert) but I'm not sure if this algae is using the N&P before it is measurable. All coral & fish appear to be thriving as well.

I am considering trying a simple DIY ATS similar to what Santamonica is discussing on another board on this forum. I will let you know if that appears to help.

I may also add some more urchins. I have one who I haven't notice eating but he's hardly super-active.

Marcus

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 07:45:57 GMT

Yes, it is, and I am glad to have started it and that it has helped. Can you post a photo of the snail which you have found to eat it? Thanks.

RE: red algae taking over!

Mr.Firemouth — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 19:19:26 GMT

Wow Eric!

This thread has really helped some people as this algae is seeming more common all the time!

My tank is still full of it even with 40 blue and reg leg hermits, 11 sea urchins, 4 tangs, and 1 trochus snail as I have not gotten an LFS to get the right snails in yet. The 1 Trochus does eat it quite well.

I would love to have it gone one day!

I have added ozone to the system and changed the bulb color spectrum to 20,000k.

The ORP was 290 when I began ozone last week, but is now at 410. Hopefully it will help burn up some of the algaes fuel.LOL

RE: red algae taking over!

rossco — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:16:02 GMT

I have had the good fortune of having a purple tang find a liking for this algae, as well as red bubble algae. I also have the algae in my boys' nanos and have been using the long spined diadema to control it in them.

RE: red algae taking over!

ShannonT — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:52:33 GMT

Oh, that was fun! Torching that rock was awesome. I would caution that you may want to do it OUTSIDE, like I did. It was just a little smelly.

Now, I used the rock that I pulled out of the tank and dried, so it wasn't wet algae that I was torching. Then I brought the rock in and scrubbed it with a stiff wire brush.

I haven't put the rock back in the tank yet. I have to decide how I want to aquascape first, but I kind of like the way the tank looks right now with less rock. And I really don't want to annoy the clowns again. They're getting way more aggressive and their teeth are getting much bigger.

I had two test groups of rock. One group had only been dried. The other group was removed from the tank and placed in freshly made salt water and put in a bucket in a dark basement (~70F) for a few weeks. The dark and cold seemed to do a good job of killing this stuff off too. Better than just drying.

I've got about four more rocks in the tank that are still affected. One has the xenia on it (which is finally growing!), another has the Turbinaria, and the other 2 are covered in mushrooms. So progress will probably be a little slow.

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 04:46:30 GMT

A creme brulee torch is exactly what I had in mind. They also have ones like pencils with flexible stalks at hardware stores.

RE: red algae taking over!

ShannonT — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:05:19 GMT

[quote]Eric Borneman (7/1/2008)

The small butane torch lighters are a good idea for spot killing, actually. The problem, of course, is that this algae ( or my algae) sends runners along the edges of coral margins and even across corals - and as we saw, through some soft corals. So, it wouldn't work too well in those cases.[/quote]

Maybe I'll try this too. It would be very satisfying to torch this stuff.

I think I'll break out my creme brulee torch during the baby's nap tomorrow.

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:20:45 GMT

I agree about some of the identifications and indicated that it is entirely possible they are different. The one in my case has distinctly different morphologies in different light and flow regimes and identification of algae is difficult.

The small butane torch lighters are a good idea for spot killing, actually. The problem, of course, is that this algae ( or my algae) sends runners along the edges of coral margins and even across corals - and as we saw, through some soft corals. So, it wouldn't work too well in those cases.

RE: red algae taking over!

rivoth — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:11:05 GMT

I've recently read about a technique for killing off many different types of unwanted algae from a section of rock. First you pull off by hand excess growth. Then you take a hand held propane torch and burn the attachment points with the torch. This will target kill the infected areas while not harming the rest of your rock.

This has the benefit of only killing off life on the infected areas, the rock only has to be out of the water for a couple of minutes so corals or other desirables that are growing in other areas are not harmed. If you have a sponge that can't take air exposure then you could even leave that portion of the rock submerged while blasting the infected area.

Frank

RE: red algae taking over!

RobertK — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:51:19 GMT

Hi,

Just found this thread. Forgive me if I am wrong, but it looks to my untrained eye like at least a couple of different types of red algae are being compared here. The photos posted by Eric, Reefmo, Mr. Firemouth and possibly ShannonT look similar to each other, but different to the algae originally posted by Mxett. I couldn't tell if Reeferhead's was the same or different from the others.

Myself, I had a terrible infestation of red algae last year that looked similar to Mxett's, which was completely eradicated from the display tank by a diadema urchin, and has remained gone for several months now since removing the urchin. However, it has taken up residence in my refugium, where it is thriving. In fact, I have been unable to get chaetomorpha or gracilaria to grow for long in the refugium because the red algae chokes it out. For now, it seems to be doing the job that I want from macroalgae in the refugium and I'm simply keeping an eye on the main tank for a resurgence.

FWIW,

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:06:58 GMT

Good news! Glad the suggestions are working out. Keep us posted.

RE: red algae taking over!

ShannonT — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:10:00 GMT

Woohoo! Progress on a few fronts.

1. The sinularia is perking up. It's almost upright and it's polyps are half-open. The bumps and bruises are fading, as well.

2. The rocks that were too far gone are drying out. I'd had some of them in salt water in the dark, and that seemed to be working, but I was running out of buckets and patience. Besides, my tank was/is in serious need of re-aquascaping, and it gets rid of a bunch of unwanted mushrooms. So, I'll add it back after it dries and I wire-brush the surfaces. I'll probably add some fresh live rock as well.

3. The aiptasia killer (I used Joe's Juice) is working!!!! The red algae is gone from the places I applied it. Unfortunately, I found bubble algae beneath it. And it's working to get rid of some of the mushrooms that are clouding the zoanthids I have.

RE: red algae taking over!

twon8 — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:55:32 GMT

I've had this same red algae for a while, it kills sps if it gets into the colony, but my powder brown seems to eat it, as it never grows out from crevices

Acanthurus japonicus.

RE: red algae taking over!

ShannonT — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:02:35 GMT

Thanks, Eric.

I'll update if I make any progress!

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 06:01:02 GMT

No, those bumps are likely tissue responses to foreign material left in the coral. The algae will die inside, and the bumps should go away. Even if they don't, it will be okay.

RE: red algae taking over!

ShannonT — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 15:03:14 GMT

So those bumps coming out of the side of the sinularia aren't a reason to panic?

I've pulled the red algae out of the coral with fine-point forceps, and it does get very "angry" for a week or so afterward. It has recovered every time, but it still worries me.

Partial drying! What a great idea. I might have to try that with the mushroom rock. Since they're taking over the tank too, I don't know that I'm too worried about killing some of those buggers off.

The mushroom do seem to be taking back their rock though, so I can only hope we're turning a corner with the algae.

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 05:51:34 GMT

I would try using fine tip tweezers/forceps to pull the strands out of the soft coral.

I have found my Aiptasia killer to work effectively on it, but because it grows so close or on corals you have to be very careful I have not tried something simpler and safer like some of the Aiptasia killing products but they might work and be less potentially damaging to live coral. Parts of live rock that are without much growth besides corallines I submerge in water with the part having the algae exposed for two days and let it dry- that way you don't lose the rest of the rock and it can recolonize.

I would not brush unless you are sure no filaments are getting loose, or you are potentially spreading it. The other than you can do, as mentioned, is corral several large Trochus (also sometimes erroneously called Mexican Turbos, although Mexican Turbos are often not a species we should keep as they come from the wrong temperate and not tropical side). The snails, having nothing to eat in this small area, can clean off the substrate and you can manually pick off anything small remaining (again with fine tip forceps).

RE: red algae taking over!

ShannonT — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:03:06 GMT

Sadly, it's taking over here too.

It's forcing mushrooms off their rocks and putting holdfasts into my soft coral, including my large Sinularia.

Nothing short of pulling out the rocks, drying them, and scrubbing them with a stiff wire brush has worked. Though that does defeat the purpose of "live" rock.

I've tried more frequent water changes, upping the alkalinity, adding flow, running phos-ban and poly-filters. The various snails and crabs won't touch it, and the micro brittle stars and 'pods seem to live in it.

It's really done some damage to my sinularia. Can it be saved by fragging it?

Yeah, that's a HOLE in it!!!!!

Close up

RED ALGAE:

RE: red algae taking over!

AboutMyReef777 — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:55:17 GMT

I'm sorry Eric, I had to look that one up in the old websters dictionary (lumping). Hmmm maybe if doing all of what I'm trying to accomblish as the rest of us are, get rid of, as lets try all that I have mentioned might or might not work. Is lumping. I beleive you hit it on the nail, other peoples (tank's) meaning different tanks for different folks. Sometimes I've always wondered as with different shapes of tanks if such dimensions place a role in the flow and lighting of our different tanks. Wasn't for sure if you were discredting my experience in my reply, or just over seeing that was just based on my experience.

You probably have more time in the hobby. But havn't your ever just sat and talk to someone who dosen't even know the hobby and your rambling about this and that, about your problem with your or our tanks, and they say something and a light switch goes off in your head. And all of the sudden you've got this new idea.

Sorry wan't trying to make this thread more difficult than it already is with this new algae. Was just sharing my experience for what its worth

See ya

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:34:00 GMT

I think you are lumping red algae in general, and this alga(e?) thrives in low nutrient high light and high flow. It's common for low creeping turfs to thrive in such environments as they can withstand those conditions, so I don't think food type, phosphates, filter socks or the like is an issue based on my experiences and those from other's tanks described and that I am personally familiar with.

RE: red algae taking over!

AboutMyReef777 — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:15:18 GMT

OH yeah, this may be old news, but I've also seen a difference when not using frozen food. See alot of frozen food has jel-O-ten in the mix to get it to freeze in blocks. And I've haven't done a phos test afterwards to claim that this is true. But supposely will raise the phosphates in our tanks. but we all know what will happens then

See ya

RE: red algae taking over!

AboutMyReef777 — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:52:38 GMT

Not to justify any replies, and have not read above in all replies, but with my experience of what has grown from red algae, sometimes I see the same thing. And hoping my cleaner crews with take care of busniess. But at the begining stages of growth. The algae will produce on dark purple pink sections of coraline algae. And maybe the mix of the two is throughing us off. I kind of thought at one time was some sort of sponge, we havn't researched as marine biologist yet. But I do know though my experience, as we learn when moving a tank or completley reduing a tank. This is a fighting battle from the get go. I just recentley moved, and paid $400.00 to have tank moved, and told mover to please not remove sand bottom. Well he said couldn't guarentee tank breaking with all that weight. Well maybe with some tanks. But I moved tank before with 40 lbs of sand bottom and still around 30lbs of LR and didn't have a problem. Well I had to go to store while he was moving tank. When got back he did remove sand bottom, and have been fighting red algae ever since. . Now I've just about got under control, with adding more clearner crews, and using phos reactor with SeaChem Phos Guard. And too ChemPure Elite. Thats why I've just orderd more filter socks from Marine Depot. The high flow in tank to also help battle is working the socks to death. Anyway, Good luck everybody in the battle of the oceans norm.

See ya

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Sat, 24 May 2008 05:35:36 GMT

It certainly looks to be the same or similar. I can't be sure because of the reasons stated in the thread re: identification issues, but your description, the photos and the tenacity sure indicate the same alga.

RE: red algae taking over!

Reefmo — Thu, 22 May 2008 09:27:56 GMT

Hey all, I am trying to figure out if the reg algae that I have in my tank is the same scourge that is affecting yours. It seems like it might be the same, it just looks a bit different. Mine is sort of scraggly, it is really tough and its holdfasts are almost impossible to remove.
The first photo shows what it "normally" looks like with sort of skinny long individual "leaves". The second shows a new form... somewhat of a bushy form.

The only way that I have been able to sort of control it is to take out the piece of rock, scrape off what I can, then go "scorched earth" on the remaining holdfasts with a butane lighter! The second image is what grew back after scorched earth treatment!

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:18:26 GMT

The one photo is a snail climbing up the coralline covered side partition between the two tanks - both taken in the same tank. All the other huge ones were on the back wall and corals were blocking the shots. In the other photo, its actually seagrass, Halophila, not macroalgae, and thanks.

RE: red algae taking over!

Reefski — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:57:39 GMT

a bit off topic. is that your Bare Bottom tank Eric? if so do you vacuum the debris from the bottom?

in the other photo i love the diversity of the snail, macroalgae, sponge and bristle worm all in a small area.

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 06:01:32 GMT

And here are the large snails of mine that will eat it if corralled or put into the proper place - they look the same, mine also are most active at night, and some are big enough to eat already - HUGE! And, I agree, they are not really bulldozers at all.

RE: red algae taking over!

reeferhead — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:10:22 GMT

Here is a photo of the snails I have that will eat red algae to some extent, there are 3 of them and they are 1 1/2". I believe they are Trochus snails but I may be wrong. I was going to remove them when they got so big because I was afraid they would become bulldozers, but they are really gentle on the corals and have proven to be more of an asset than liability. I rarely see them except in darkness. I do have a half dozen or so Margarita snails but they only eat microalgae.

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:47:26 GMT

That is a great image and I have found the same with other corals and I have nothing but anecdote here but it seems those that have generally poor competitive abilities or that tend to form anything other than solid moving accretions as they grow are prime for the runners on this alga. I find the algae to grow right up against the growing margins of Porites or Montipora, almost encircling it. As you know, Montipora often produces little folds and raised areas at its margins as it grows and you can find nudibranch refuge there. My thought is that this alga probably forms a physical and possible chemical barricade to growth in these types and the coral either doesn't grow past it or tries to grow over the top of it -and often can't - and this raising of growth pattern is what allows for things like we see in the images below. Many excavating/bioeroding species have similar effects and what seems like hard substrate the coral is growing on is actually carbonate in various stages of pulverization (also normally being filled with sponges, endolithic algae, fungi, etc.).

With Porites, the algae can even grow right over the living tissue, putting down holdfasts into living coral and then either chemical or mechanical abrasion and shading kills the tissue below it, allowing for more takeover by the alga.

Thanks for those images. I look forward to the other thread.

RE: red algae taking over!

reeferhead — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:58:20 GMT

That's interesting to see the algae was not suffocated under the cap. I have an unknown yellow Acro (poss. Tenius) that will kill the algae as it encrusts, up to 1/4 around it's base. I think Eric's plan to remove infested LR and replace with fresh is the best method so far that I have heard. The infested LR can then be put into the dark until it goes away and reused for a QT . I had a few questions about the nutrient levels in tanks that are Acro dominated but it would derail this thread, I'll start a new one.

Please everyone who reads this that has this algae growing, post a pic or two and the methods you use to control it.

RE: red algae taking over!

Mr.Firemouth — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:02:06 GMT

So, not to hijack the thread but, Saturday i discovered I had Montipora Nudis. It wiped out a nice 8" green/white Cap I had. I removed the skeleton and all nudis on it, but let's face it they are in the system.

Now here is where it gets wierd. See this pic...

That is a large Sunset Monti. It had a soft spot from I am assuming nudis being under it. I chipped the damaged spot away and look at this...

Yes, the damage is depressing I know! However, look at the algae. The coral grew over the algae. It did not kill it or push it back and grow over the rock. There is a large portion of this coral sitting on top of the algae and not the rock. Furthermore, the algae under the coral has not been exposed to direct light for weeks and yet it was still alive and thriving! The areas that are bare are where I scraped with the razor when removing the damaged tissue. Maybe I am crazy, but I was suprised that the algae was alive and well under the encrusting montipora. NUTS!

RE: red algae taking over!

wil2661 — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:31:48 GMT

I too have been battling this stuff for almost a year, started out as a small clump or two, didnt think too much of it, next thing you know its on almost every rock in the tank. Anyway been slowly getting rid of it, I tried a few things in this thread that seem to work.

Herbivores: Regal Angel - wont touch it

Sea Urchin - maybe eats a little

Mexican Turbo - eats a good amount (pick them up and show them where the stuff is)

And pull as much out as you can grab.

RE: red algae taking over!

reeferhead — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:08:14 GMT

Well today was a really productive day for the tank and myself. I spent a good 4 hours removing all of the corals and LR to rid my system of the red algae plague. On the pieces of LR that had corals attached I just scraped mostly clean with a razor blade, the others that were really overgrown were discared. In all only a few pieces could not be salvaged, no big deal. There are still some small areas that I missed but I can remove and clean them as nec.

That is a good idea Eric to start a database for herbivors that have been tested to eat or not eat the algae. Since my tank is only a 30g, I don't have any herbivorous fish but only rely on snails to do the job. Of the snails I have, 3 large Trochus snails have been eating it to some extent, but after eating small patches, they move on to more tasty algae. I will post a pic tonight when they come out so others can see what I have. Hopfully I can keep it under control now.

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 05:18:03 GMT

I think the nature of its attachment on carbonate substrate and not glass is a matter of its mode of growth and attachment. Most algae that do form holdfasts and runners seem not to grow well on glass (too hard, smooth and nonporous). You also don't see Caulerpa (sort of a larger green version known to many) growing on glass.

RE: red algae taking over!

Mr.Firemouth — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:06:46 GMT

I unfortuneately did not treat this algae as a problem until it was too far gone. My system is completely covered in this stuff. I have been switching out old rocks for new but within a 2 week period the new rock has tufts of this algae forming. I too have noticed that this algae only grows on calcerous substrates like coralline algae and rock but not on clean glass.

I wonder if it gets some type of nutrient or trace element from the substrate it grows on?

I have noticed that the Diadema urchins are best, the large "Mexican Turbo Snails and the larger Trocheus Snails I have eat it but far too slowly to eradicate it.

My personal tank(due to it's size and amount of rocks)is probably beyond any level of eradication unless some type of reefsafe algicide is found and used. Not being a fan of commercial chemical additives for algae removal I do not think I would attempt a product.(unless proven safe to use) The second problem I have is that my system has a 6' custom MRC6 skimmer that is not able to be turned off. It was set-up to always run with the main pump. It can be throttled way down, but I fear any chemical will be skimmed out before it is effectively used.

I am switching from 3-250w Phoenix DE bulbs and 2-150w XM 10K bulbs to all 5 lamps being XM 20000K De bulbs.(color rendition just seems better with these lamps). I am curious if the color shift will hinder or boon growth? Time will tell and I will report back after I switch lamps next month.

RE: red algae taking over!

Eric Borneman — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 06:29:52 GMT

I sent samples to Mark and Diane Littler for identification and they did not have the time to do it. They suggested it looked like a gelid, but gelids are generally very palatable to herbivores, and this is not. Maybe in the wild it is, maybe this one is different. Until there is an ID, one can only speculate about its nutritional and environmental requirements or tolerances or generalize based on similar algae.

I got it from Indonesia maricultured fragment bases, and I know others have gotten it from these, too. I don't know if it is a widespread or narrow issue at mariculture stations, but we will be looking during the Indonesia mariculture workshop. I also don't know and won't speculate as to the many potential sources, but the algae reports started showing up in tanks at roughly the same time Indonesia began mass export of maricultured corals under the new quota system there. It's also important to realize that there are many identified and unidentified algae that look very similar and only someone skilled at algal systematics would be able to confirm an ID if it is described and then we would also have to confirm that these are all the same species in the various tanks.

My suggestion would be for everyone who has had what appears to be this algae list the herbivores in their tank and if they have been at all effective. I will start

Zebrasoma flaviscens - not effective
Zebrasoma scopas - not effective
Zebrasoma veliferum - not effective
Zebrasoma xanthurum - not effective
Ctenochaetus strigosus - not effective
Acanthurus sohal - not effective
Salarias fasciatus - not effective

Snails (Turbo, Trochus, Strombus, Astraea, Stomatella, polyplacophores, Nerites, Columbellid, Ceritth, Collonista) - not effective EXCEPT large Indo-Pacific Trochus sp. if placed and corralled into one place and not allowed to leave until the space is clear.

amphipods - not effective

Echinometra sp. minimally effective
Diadema spp. - effective on open areas but small runners persist in inaccessible areas. This is why I suggest urchins in a tank with low light and flow that encourages the more bushy growth form. If it has gotten into highly and tightly branched corals, I do not see how anything but small herbivores could get to it and the coral may have to be tossed unless someone finds something small that loves this algae (flatworm, nudibranch, small gastropod?) and can avoid being hurt by crawling around on cnidarians.