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RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:34:17 GMT

It seems that after my email to the VP, and advising him that even Marine Depot
has been trying to get in touch with them. That the VP called Marine Depot and talked to Daniel...
Daniel then emailed me saying that he too was in contact with the VP..

In the VP's email to me, he stated that the "email is working now",
Which to me is code for "I just fired the email person, and got someone else to do the job".

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:28:08 GMT

Awesome!!! I am glad someone there was willing to help you out with the warranty, I am sure some heads will role with the fact it had to go up to him to get the replacement.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:02:32 GMT

OK I got the email address of the VP of Pentair Aquatics,
And emailed him with what is going on.
He emailed me right back,, and is shipping out a replacement Ballast.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:12:36 GMT

Today I went out and bougth a replacement bulb for the UV Filter.
To now find out that it's not the bulb but the ballast...
Which I know is under warranty... But then again, can't get in touch with Pentair.

Bill

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Sun, 20 Apr 2008 18:22:58 GMT

Guess I should have put "if you still can not get a hold of Pentair".

Daniel is a very good customer service rep at MD, he should be able to help you out. I agree it looks bad when even the retailer can not get a hold of the manufacturer. Lets hope he has some better luck and gets that bulb replaced for you.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Sun, 20 Apr 2008 15:29:19 GMT

Keith,
It must be too early for you.. This whole tread is basically about not being able to get in touch with Pentair...

I did get an email from Daniel at MD. It looks like he too is having an issue getting in touch with them.. This does not restore my faith in Pentair..

It's been just over a month since I bought the equipment.
Shipping date was 3/4/2008 and 5 days shipping via UPS
Delivered on 3/10/2008. The UV Bulb blew on Sunday 4/13/2008 and email was sent to Pentair on Monday 4/14/2008..

Now if MD would honor the warranty that is just 3 days past the 30 day mark, then that would be great support, especially knowing that no one can not get in touch with the manufacturer.

Bill

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Sun, 20 Apr 2008 05:36:43 GMT

Wow...how weird is that! But I am glad it is working again!

If you purchased the unit from MD less than 30 days ago I believe they will warranty the UV for you. If it is over 30 days the manufacturer should take care of it for you. If you are not able to get in touch with Pentair, let MD know and they can escalate this for you.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 21:18:37 GMT

Ok, The Volume Issue is now fixed... I want to thank everyone that tried to help.

I took the filtering system into the tub and removed the chem. filter and the paper out of the mech. filter, and the pump, and did a reverse water flow (out to in).
I felt the hose building up with pressure and then suddenly something popped out of the intake line and down the drain before I could grab it... It looked to me like a big Mole Crab.
But how could he get into the line, past the pump, and into the filter system..
Well, whatever it was, it is now in the sewer, and the issue is gone..

I hooked up the system and the water is flowing like crazy...

I still need to contact Pentair for the UV bulb that blew out in a month.
Most likely they will not warranty it, if I every get intouch with them.

Thanks again everyone for all your support..
That is why I love coming to this forum, people helping people...

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:29:03 GMT

The Tank..
The pump sounds like an electrical short..

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

laverda — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:24:44 GMT

Bill

I am sorry to hear that it did not solve the problem. It really does not make sense that the pump would cavitate more. Cavitation occurs when a pump can not draw enough water in to the impeller cavity. Where is the pump drawing water from? A sump or the tank its self?

Steve

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:09:51 GMT

Sounds like it certainly could be a defective pump. You might consider going with a Quite One 4000HH instead of the standard 4000 for a replacement. While the output at 0 head is less, as soon as you put a little head pressure on the pump the 4000HH has a much better output. For example with 4 feet of head pressure the 4000 is pumping about 750 gph and the 4000HH is pumping almost 900 gph.

Keep us updated please.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:01:56 GMT

I filled the hose with water before turning on the pump.
All air removed...

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:56:38 GMT

Bill1426 (4/18/2008)

And it's barely sucking the water on the intake...

Make sure the tubing leading to the pump, the pump itself and the filter system has water in it. These pumps (and actually most pumps made for the aquarium industry) can not suck water into them, they can only push water out. If there is air trapped before the pump it probably can not get that air out.

I am sorry for all the trouble you are having with this set up and especially for the fact that Pentair is impossible to get tech support from.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:56:46 GMT

Ok I made the changes..

Now the pump is cavitating like mad...
And it's barely sucking the water on the intake...

So, No more changes !!
I have spent enough money changing things to get this to work.
With the money I have spent changing things, I could have bought another pump.
I'm done...
It's the pump....

Because of the lack of customer service,
I will never buy another Pentair (Rainbow LifeGard) Product again...

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:24:30 GMT

Thanks Steve..
I will make the change and see what happens..
The hose on the intake is only 4 feet long, so changing that and the one connector
will be easy...
I'll post the results...

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

laverda — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:18:13 GMT

You need to keep the feed side of the plumbing at least 1 inch or the pump will cavitate. Basically it is creating a vacuum in side the impeller housing because it is not getting enough water. When a bump civitates it does not pump properly and is very noisy. If the feed line to the pump is very long you should increase the size of it to 1.25" to keep it from cavitating. Also the intake screen needs to be kept clear and free from obstruction. You can not restrict the intake of most pumps. Restricting the intake of many pumps will cause them to suck air past the seals, as the seals are designed to stop pressurized water from leaking out, not from sucking air in. If you redo the intake plumbing to the pump, I think it will solve your problems.

Your ball valve should be on the output side of the pump if you are using it to control the flow.

Good luck

Steve

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 04:59:34 GMT

That is really a bummer...not good customer service if you can't speak to someone in their aquatics dept on the phone. It certainly will make me less likely to recommend them to anyone. If you can't speak live to someone about problems it really can be hard to troubleshoot issues (emails sometimes are not enough, especially when they don't answer them).

I did email this thread to the customer service managers at MD and asked them to look for your email. Hopefully they can get this solved quickly for you.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:40:40 GMT

The phone numbers you have are for the main office..
That is the numbers I had too...And called..

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:33:20 GMT

Bill1426 (4/18/2008)

I guess you get up early too...

5:30 am East Coast almost every morning (without an alarm clock)!!! I wish I could sleep in, but my body most days won't let me plus I have to wake up my son so he can get ready to go to school.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:30:44 GMT

No problem...and I agree about Pentair. I know they have a pool division, but they should have a phone number for their aquatics dept to give to you at the very least (or transfer your call).

I will forward this thread to the customer service manager at Marine Depot so he is aware of the issue.

It sounds like you are going to have to take it apart to get to the pump to send it in either way (unfortunately). That really is a bummer as I have been in the same boat on a few occasions and it stinks after the work put in.

Found the numbers I was looking for: 626-443-6114 800-628-8771. Fax: 626-444-1445 Fax: 800-424-1445.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:22:14 GMT

I guess you get up early too...

Well I did remove the filters from all the canisters and the pressure did not change..
From what the guy at the main office (tech support), said,, if it's making that kind of a sound, it's the pump.. (sounds like rattling underwater)..
And I can say for sure, that after doing all these tests, the pump is the only thing left.
To answer your question, To remove the pump, I would have to disconnect all the lines,
and move the whole system to the sink.. So If I'm going to do that, I would like to replace what is wrong, and not have to do it twice...

As for the phone number, I don't think you will find one..
The guy at the main office didn't have one for them (aquarium division).

This is just very bad service on Pentair's part...
So far I have sent them 2 emails of the last 5 days with no response.
I will forward my email at I sent to Purchasing to Customercare..
Thanks..

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:05:33 GMT

The 1015 is based on zero head, so it shouldn't push that much after going through the filter system but it should push a lot faster than what you are seeing.

Can you detach the pump and try running it by itself in a bucket? That way you can make sure it is actually the pump and not something in the filter system or plumbing.

I know Marine Depot had some issues with emails yesterday. I would try sending another email to customercare@marinedepot.com just in case the first one did not make it (or forward the email you already sent to that email address).

I am still trying to get an actual phone number for you, I know they have a non-toll free number (starts with 626) but I haven't had luck digging it up yet.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:08:55 GMT

Ok I finally had a chance to change over both 90 degree connectors.

And I did a 5 gallon water test..
I connected a hose to the end of the UV Filter straight to the 5 gallon jug..
Based on 1015 gph the jug should fill up in 20 seconds.
The test results are.... 4 Mins to fill up the 5 gallon jug..
That is approx 75 GPH... WAY OFF to 1015 GPH...

I also email Marine Depot, Purchasing Dept. based on the Help/Warranty
Section of the web page, and advised them as to what is going on, and
a copy of the email I sent Pentair..

No response from Marine Depot or Pentair yet...

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:33:50 GMT

He felt it was defective..(now spinning fast enough)..

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:28:54 GMT

I am trying to find a number for you. I know they have a toll free number and a non toll free number. I will see if I can get them for you. I am surprised they only answer questions via email for tanks stuff. Must be a new policy or something.

Did he feel the pump was defective or not powerful enough? I believe Marine Depot handles the first 30 days of the warranty for defective products and after that it has to go through the manufacturer (but I may be wrong).

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:07:17 GMT

I just changed one of the 90 degrees, and basiclly flooded the rug..

So while I have towels soaking up the water, I figured I'd call Pentair.
The number I have is 1-800-628-8771, but that is not for the Aqurium Div.
the person told me that the only way to contact them is via email...
But in our conversation, he feels it's the pump too...

If you have a number for the Aquarium Div. please send it too me...

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:11:49 GMT

Try running the pump in a bucket and see how it works. Hold your finger over the outlet to simulate head pressure and see if the pump still makes the same noise. While it certainly is possible the pump is defective, it may also simply be the pump isn't able to handle the head pressure.

If you haven't heard from Pentair via email, I high suggest calling. I have found there are some manufacturers that are better at emails while others are better with phone calls. IME Pentair is better with phone calls.

HTH and keep us updated.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:06:17 GMT

I have taken apart the pump the other day, and all is in working order.
I am going to the hardware store to change out the 90 degree connections.
I'll tell you what happens in about an hour...

Keith I want to thank you for helping me with this issue..

I still feel it's a bad pump (which I got from Marine Depot..LOL...)

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:59:31 GMT

Ahhh yes...the ecoaqualizer, LOL. They don't work. There have been many threads about them in the past and most people agree they simply don't do what they advertise (actually I believe it is impossible for them to do what they advertise with magnets).

The noise from the pump could be a few things. It certainly is possible the pump is defective. If you can take it apart I would double check the impeller to make sure the shaft isn't broken and it is spinning freely. Also the elbows coming into the pump could be causing cavitation, which can put pressure on the pump and cause noise issues sometimes or microbubbles (http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic38780-13-1.aspx). Also make sure you flood the pump before turning it on just in case there is some air trapped that isn't making its way out.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:37:44 GMT

I have no idea what I keep forgeting to add this in.

But the pump makes a weird sound.. Kind of like something is
loose... Or like a big air pocket is in the pump.. But I know there isn't one..

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:35:34 GMT

Thanks Keith,

I know the picture I sent doesn't show the plumbing that well at all..
But I actually do have the pump got directly into the filter, it just has a
a 1 1/4 slip to 3/4 FPT (that is the piece that came with the filters).
But that is already glued in place..

The tape you see is an experiment.. I taped 3 magents to the outside of
the hose.. The people at ECO-Aqualizer (http://www.ecoaqualizer.com/aquarium-x.htm)
put Rare Earth Magnets in the tube and claim that it breaks apart the Ammonia, Nitrites,
and Nitrates from the H2O Molecule. And you don't need to change the water for a very long time... :o)

I do have another valve (ball valve), I forgot about, it is open 100% to the tank right now.
On other days, I close it 10% (90% open), to send water to the Fluidized Bed Filter
(Lifegard FB300).. If I had more pressure I would leave it at the postion all the time..

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:04:01 GMT

I am not sure what the attachement is on the last picture (looks like electric tape is covering something). Is that a ball valve of some type?

First thing I would suggest is replumbing the pumps inlet and outlet. Take a look at this picture (http://www.pentairaquatics.com/products/detail/quiet_one/Q1_images/ModSys%2BQ1sm.jpg). If you can go straight from the pump into the inlet of the filter I think that would be a better option. You should be able to thread this bushing onto the pump and glue it into the inlet of the filter (or it may have already been included with the filter system). The less fittings/adapters, etc... the better when plumbing.

On the inlet side I would try to avoid as many of the 90 degree elbows as possible. If you can go straight into the ball valve that would be much better instead of elbowing into the ball valve and then a second elbow into the pump. The elbows will cause restrictions going into the pump reducing flow.

Even though they aren't pressurized, I would still recommend hose clamping the inlet side also (just in case).

It seems Pentair recommends the 4000HH pump for their modular systems. While they don't come right out and say that, the descriptions for the HH pump says "Model 4000 High Head rotates and fits into the Lifegard Module filter system." where this was not listed for the other pumps. But I may be reading into that more than what they are saying.

Hopefully Pentair returns your email so we can get their input on this. Let us know what they say.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:44:40 GMT

Here are some pics... Thanks for the help....

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:27:29 GMT

Reducing the line will restrict the flow. Is there anyway to keep everything at 1"? 7/8 coming in probably is not doing a whole bunch to reduce the flow, but the 3/4" will.

Also the CustomFlo probably is doing a little restricting also as it accepts 1/2" or 3/4" tubing. Did you cut off the 1/2" part of the customflo so just the 3/4" is there? If not that may help some.

I am guessing that you probably have a total of around 6-8 feet (maybe more) of head pressure from just the plumbing. 3.5' of tubing, at least two 90 degree bends in the Customflo (each 90 adds one foot of head pressure) and then the 3/4" ball valve.

At 8 feet of head pressure you will be getting about 400 gph. Depending on what attachement you are using in the tank from the customflo it may not be a whole bunch of flow (especially if you are using more than one output).

Hopefully Pentair replies (or you may consider calling them). If you can take a picture or two of the set up and post them here I certainly am willing to see if I notice anything.

HTH,

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:11:36 GMT

Also, the UV bulb is not working..
I unpluged the power for the whole system, and the bulb
would not turn on again after that..

I have this setup for just over a month.. I have emailed Pentair
about both issues (pump pressude and UV Bulb),And they have not replied.
I would hope, that after spending big bucks for this setup,they will replace the bulb.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:07:01 GMT

argi (4/16/2008)

Hey Bill,

Do you have it set up basically like this (but without the heater)?:

How high up is the pump pushing water back into the tank?

Where is the pump getting fed its water (from the tank or from a sump at the same level)?

If you can give us a little more about the actual plumbing lines we may be able to figure out what is going on.

Here is the flow chart for the QO 4000. If you figure out the head pressure that might help also determine what your flow rate should be:

My Setup is exactly like that (yes excluding the heater).

From the end of the VU sterilizer to the top of the tank is 3.5 feet

Water is coming from the tank, not a sump (using Rainbow CustomFlo Kit)

The setup is as follows:
Intake and Exhaust in the tank using the CustomFlo kit.
7/8 Line is used all around.
Shutoff valves are Intake 1" Ball Valve, Exhaust 3/4" Ball Valve.

So the intake goes from 7/8 house to a 1" ball valve, to the 4000 pump.
Out from the pump to the AF-94-19, then AF-93-19, then QL-25.
Out from the QL-25 to a 3/4" ball valve, to a 7/8" hose to the tank.

RE: Pentair Filtration System Question

argi — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:38:05 GMT

Hey Bill,

Do you have it set up basically like this (but without the heater)?:

How high up is the pump pusing water back into the tank?

Where is the pump getting fed its water (from the tank or from a sump at the same level)?

If you can give us a little more about the actual plumbing lines we may be able to figure out what is going on.

Here is the flow chart for the QO 4000. If you figure out the head pressure that might help also determine what your flow rate should be:

Pentair Filtration System Question

Bill1426 — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:49:33 GMT

I installed the following filtration system.

1) Pentair Quiet One 4000 (1015 GPH)
2) Pentair AF-94-19 (Mechanical Filter)
3) Pentair AF-93-19 (Chemical Filter)
4) Pentair 24 Watt VU Sterilizer

My question is,, Shouldn't the exhaust pressure look like a jacuzzi ??
Cause mine is dribbeling out..
The pressure gauge on the AF-94-19 shows 3 lbs.
And if I shut off the valve on the exhaust it goes to 5 lbs.
I have even removed all the filtering media and turned on the unit,
with no difference in pressure.
Personally I think I have a bad pump.

Thanks,
Bill