Marine Depot Forums / General Forums / General Fish and Reefs Discussion / Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else / Latest Posts

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

Av8BlueWater — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:23:30 GMT

http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-HR16-LED-24-WHITE-or-WARM-Spot-Grow-Light-110v-E27_W0QQitemZ200143275798QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLamps_US?hash=item2e99780716#ht_1272wt_1167
Thinking about trying out these LED grow lights.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:54:37 GMT

I now have a system to make double-layered, cactus-rough, plastic canvas screens:
http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=319

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:58:57 GMT

Success Updates:

Coolhandgoose on the scrubber site: "Since I installed the new light two weeks ago my nitrates have gone from 20 to 0. The cyano in my display is now starting to disappear."

Desert_Fishy on the SWF site: "I started my 75g reef 5 months ago (2nd venture w/SW) and decided to start up with a scrubber and no skimmer due to this thread. All I have are powerheads, lights, scrubber and a heater. My water readings are perfect, corals are really flourishing, fish are happy and I spend 10 minutes a week cleaning the algae off the scrubber - although that is becoming a bigger and bigger job. My only problem now is that copepods, feather dusters and some other small pink bug-like creatures that live on the glass are multiplying out of control. I have feather dusters everywhere!"

Toddo on the MFK site: "This is my 125 freshwater tank with medium bio load. I have an XP3 with Biomax/mech pads, and this scrubber as the only filtration now. Its been 12 days with just the scrubber for nitrate control. Nitrates and ammonia are still at zero. No water changes. This is significant, as my well water is 35-40ppm Nitrates. It grows enough algae to need weekly cleaning now. I had a specific freshwater requirement for low to no nitrates, and I have met that, using my scrubber. It was properly designed and built using info provided, and is now functioning as expected."

DeathWish302 on the RC site: "The turf scrubber slowly drove out the cyano, and has been amazingly processing EVERYTHING I have thrown at the tank in regards to food."

AlgaeNator on the scrubber site: "I have been running a version of ATS for about 2 months, and have been skimmerless for 4 weeks now, and am very happy with the ATS concept and performance so for. I have been running my prototype Victory Scrump for about 3 weeks now, to prove the concept and it's working VERY well. My corals are healthier than EVER, Two of MY RIC's that were dying going clear, are now SPLITTING after removing the skimmer. Im amazed actually at how well my other softies are doing too. In my case, I might not be typical though, as I think i was OVERSKIMMING my tank with my larger skimmers i build and sell, removing the good stuff with the bad"

Manuelink on the scrubber site [from spanish]: "with algal over 4 months without water changes, no skimmer, no additives anything, just food and my corals growing like additives. the coralline algae and is infested by all sides, that speaks of good levels of alk and calcium. is a wonder this invention"

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:57:49 GMT

Well, I recall that your tank is not stocked much, which would mean you are not feeding much. And as you say, your N and P are low. So yes, this could mean little scrubber growth.

However, your growth should be all green hair, if your nutrients are low.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

Av8BlueWater — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:42:19 GMT

Not much algae growth. I figure my PO4 and NO3 are so low there isn't much to feed the algae... Sound normal?
Lights are fairly new. Flow still 642 GPH on 11 inches.
I still massage clean the algae every week to get any oils off but there's not much to clean off. I have some turf matt that I don't peel off unless it just peels off itself.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:10:10 GMT

Excerpts from "Our Coral Reef Aquaria - Our Own Personal Experiments in the effects of Trace Element Toxicity" by Ron Shimek
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-08/rs/feature/index.php

"Trace elements in heightened concentrations are considered to be poisons, nothing more, nothing less, by every researcher examining them."

"With regard to arsenic (when found), copper, nickel, tin, and zinc, the average tank water must be considered as being polluted with heavy metals."

"The water from the average reef tank is clearly dangerous to the organisms put into it [because of too many trace elements]."

"What causes these excessively high trace metal concentrations? Initially, the problem occurs with artificial seawater mixes that have abnormally high concentrations of these materials [...] Also, there is inadequate export of the materials due to any number of causes, but including such factors as poor skimming, inadequate water changes, and inadequate biomass export. Finally, in some cases well-meaning, but ill-advised aquarists often add supplements containing unknown quantities of some trace elements."

"There are NO data that any trace element additions are beneficial, and for any trace element for which there are data, excess amounts are detrimental. No adequate test kits exist for the vast majority of these materials, and few supplements list their ingredients in a trustworthy manner. Consequently, it is prudent not to add any at all to a system."

[Scrubbers remove metals]

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:36:44 GMT

A quote from Eric Borneman on feeding SPS corals, from
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/eb/index.php

"Corals with small polyps do not necessarily require more or less light than those with larger polyps. The only real difference between corals with small polyps and corals with large polyps is the size of the prey they can consume. Many small polyped corals, such as Pocillopora damicornis and Stylophora pistillata, are highly photoadaptive and can be found in very deep water. The genus Acropora has more species than any other coral and, as might be expected, can be found in similarly varied locations. Species of Acropora are found in deep water and shallow water, high water flow and low water flow. Furthermore, corals with small polyps have been found in many studies to consume more prey than corals with large polyps (see Borneman's article on feeding corals in Reefkeeping 2002 for pertinent references). The belief that large polyped corals need to be fed more than small polyped corals is just wrong."

[skimmers remove coral food; scrubbers add coral food]

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:29 GMT

RainerFeyer on the RC site: "My tank is 75g, 230W T5 lighting, about 8-9 years old now (was FOWLER for 2 years before that). I started a little more than 2 months ago with a vertical ATS. Very happy with it: 3 lights, 20W each, 350GPH flow. I added a horizontal scrubber purely because, by fault of my design, cleaning screens was cumbersome, plus, the size of the scrubber was not preferred. So, been running a verical now for less than one week (aside the horizontal) and all is well so far. Once the Horizontal is well established, I will remove the Vertical. Have been without PS for 6 weeks now! The change in the tank is just amazing! No more algae or cyano, and, the sps which [previously] started dying (probably from nitrates / phosphates/ lack of food) is starting to come back! Thanks for the idea, all of you and especially SM and Worley!"

Jauld on the RC site: "N and P have been 0 since installation. This is the only filtration I have on my aquarium and I do a 20% water change monthly. this [scrubber] one has been running for nearly 3 months now with 0 problems. When I first set this model up, I accidentally used a metal nozzle that released some bad metals into the aquarium and I lost a frogspawn. After that, I changed out the nozzle and did an 80% water change. been fine ever since. Before I installed this [scrubber], my tank was COMPLETELY filled with algae (almost no rock visible). I let this thing run and after about 6 weeks, the algae started to thin and die in the DT. Then, at 8 weeks, I took the rock out piece by piece and scrubbed all the remaining algae off. 0 algae growth since that in the DT, but the screen grows a TON. I have before and afters pics if you really want to see. I found that the DT [water] will start getting cloudy after about 2-3 weeks IF i don't scrub the algae off the screen every 7-10 days. This is because so much algae is growing on the screen that when it starts to get thick, the algae underneath doesn't get any light and starts to die, releasing the stuff that makes the water quality suffer. However, as long as I clean the screen 3 times a month (takes 3-5 min), the water stays clear as day. This thing is such low maint. and is the sole reason i'm still in this hobby. I was planning to quit since I couldnt get the algae growth under control."

Gowingsgo on the RC site: "I just added a ATS to my system and have found that it did reduce my nitrates down to 0. from about 5 ppm. I still use my skimmer but have found that I do not have to clean it as much, and that the skim-mate is much darker in color. I have attached a few photos of my new sump. I built my sump the way I did with 5 separate chambers. (1 intake from main tank) (2 ATS) (3 skimmer) (4 fuge with live rock and sand so if I need to I can also put stuff in my sump) (5 return to main tank). I set up the ATS not to remove nitrates but to remove algae from my display tank (and that is exactly what it is doing). I now clean my glass about every 4 days and I used to do it every day. This is not for everyone but I wanted to give it a try and have found that I am very happy with my results. BTW I over feed my fish and corals a lot so I was very happy with the nitrates dropping down to zero. I will most likely keep my skimmer on line. even if it stops skimming. I like knowing that if I get something in my tank that skimmer is there to remove it."

MyFishEatYourFish on the MFK site: "update on my tank. no waterchanges since completion of ats over six months ago with multiple thriving sps, polyps, and a softies. [DT] algae growth is slowed, though what algae does grow is much harder than normal because it is corraline and that crappy tough brown stuff. my plants, chaeto and small grape calerpa show almost no growth, unfortunately xenia grows much slower than i would like too. one thing that everyone skimping on waterchanges must know is to keep up on additives, coral vite, calcium, magnesium, stonium, molebdenum essential elements etc. the best part is my nitrates and phosphates are still undetectable!!! thanks santa monica for starting this great thread!

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:28:44 GMT

In your case, a custom-made black acrylic unit would work great; it could sit on top, be silent, not let any light out, and drain right into the display:

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

dallas — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:28:48 GMT

Wow! This really seems like a very straightforward idea that is simple to do. I will have to make an attempt to try it at some point. I have a very limited space available, and what space I do have is "public" -- tank is built into front desk in our office. But I do like the concept very much and as a result of my "space" shortage, something like this might be a better choice than figuring out how to plumb a DSB, refugium, phosphate reactor, etc.!

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 06:22:20 GMT

Yes you have turf.

Your friend's screen is not rough enough. But if you want to post pics and of his setup, we can look at it.

Iron from the metal piece is not the problem; the problem is copper. But it's just a little bit, and algae eats copper, so you are probably ok.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

k_zangeneh — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:09:00 GMT

hi to all
dear santa
i couldnt set up my ATS yet due to house change problems but as i read before that existing algae can perform some filtration in tank so i didint scrubb my backside of my nano from algae
after about one month i noticed that some algae in the tideline of the tank ( the line which water meet air ) were too hard to scrub and the others which attached to the backside under the water changed to brown and looked like died algae
after that i scrubbed the entire backside but i let the tideline algae to grow and keep it till now
its green and fresh ithink i achieve the turf algae
below is the pic of that
is there any idea ?

can you help me understanding more about it ?

another problem :
i set up three weeks ago a system for one of my friends and each 7 days we washed the screen gently at the first week we have only diatom on the screen and at the second week we had diatom too but now we can see some grren algae on the screen but the problem is he has diatom bloom in his tank diatoms are every where glass, sand and rocks and the water has a bad smell
i exprinced that bad smell myself when i had a lot of diatom and i clean them and coolect them with a sponge filter that bad smell came when i washed the sponge after cleareing water finished
do you have any idea ?

and the last question for this time :
i use a freshwater sponge filter for collecting algae when i scrub them this filter has a metal axis on its pump
as i use it two times per week is there any problem with metal axis ? and if we use an ATS is it absorb the iron which leaked to the water ? ( can i call it safe along with ATS ?)

thanks alot
i hope success in transfering my words ( translating is too hard )

best regards

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

Av8BlueWater — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 07:43:25 GMT

[quote]snowman (10/10/2009)

concering the turf scrubber should I leave my protien skimmer working. This way I will build a turf scrubber in addition to what I already have. I am thinking of doing this on my 75 reef and fish tank. How long on the average will the nitrate begin to work not changing any feeding habits. I am not sure how to check if someone replys to this message. Any advise would help me.

thanks in advance the snowman.[/quote]
In 2 weeks all my cyano was gone. I didn't have a huge problem but it was there. In 3 weeks nitrates were 20-30(down from 40-60) , 4 weeks NO3 = 15, Then the first week I notice NO3 = 0 was about 9 weeks total. I started June 24 and Nitrate zero on Sep. 2. It was a happy day.
My PO4 here lately is .02-.03(tested with photometer) but I also still run rowaphos. I had an area of GHA about the size of my fist a few months ago and now it's the size of a pea.. but it is still there. I 'm also an overfeeder.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:10:50 GMT

Update: RC has un-blocked "scrubber", "algaescrubber", and other scrubber-related words.

Update: Algae on rocks: If you are building a scrubber to help remove algae from your rocks, don't remove the algae from the rocks manually. Let it stay there so it can do some filtering while your scrubber starts growing. The algae on the rocks will start disappearing after you have cleand off about three scrubber screens. It's also fun to watch it disappear.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:40:14 GMT

When you reply to a thread, before you submit it, click the "Immediate Notify" option at the bottom of the page.

It takes about three cleanings of algae before you nutrients start going down. If you don't really have problems now, you can remove the scrubber. If you have high nitrate or phosphate, you can wait.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

snowman — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 11:51:20 GMT

thanks in advance the snowman.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 23:02:10 GMT

Actual red/brown turf only needs to be cut off once a month, but, it still needs to have the green algae washed off it (in FW) once a week.

Simon if you could post pics of your growth before and after cleaning....

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

Av8BlueWater — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:29:42 GMT

Yeah, I've looked at Home Depot and Lowes.. I get them at a mom and pop's hardware store.
I think the 3 month change schedule is good because I could tell a difference visually when I changed them.
But I'm gonna start looking into T5 or PC to replace these because they just cost too much.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SimonSKL — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:00:22 GMT

I don't remember seeing any of the 40W CFL in any of the local home center. At $9 each, it doubles the price of a 30W bulb.

I have not been able to get good algae growth. I think part of the reason was the low flow (400 gph) and low wattage bulbs (23W one on each side at about 2" from the screen). I have now increased the flow with a 700gph pump (I had to dial it back with a shut off valve) and am experimenting with different bulbs (currently I am using 30W 6100K).

Simon

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

Av8BlueWater — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:51:26 GMT

It was a 4100k 40W Replaces 150W.
There expensive though. My store charges $9 a piece.
http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/satco_s7335_40w_spiral_pro_series_4100k_cfl.asp

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

Av8BlueWater — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:48:32 GMT

Using a Rio 642 GPH pump... it's pumping full blast.
Yeah, I'm still using that new screen.. BTW that is a honeycomb that is often used in making composite aircraft parts.(or other lightweight things )
I have the screens zip tied to a screen divider because as you know they're too fragile to hang on their own. It's working fine but the water doesn't flow over it very well. I would like to switch to the new new screen.. hehe
I'm using two 40W 140W equivalent bulbs that I can't remember the Kelvin.. I think it was 5100k.
I'm actually going to replace them this week.. aiming for 3 months. ...it's been 3 months and a couple weeks now.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SimonSKL — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 21:30:59 GMT

Av8BlueWater, Looks like you are growing good turf algae on your screen. May I ask you a few questions about your ATS:

1.what wattage and K of CFL bulb are you using and how often do you change the bulbs?
2.Are you are still using the new screen materials that you got from SantaMonica?
3.What is the water flow rate (gph) you have over the screen?

Thanks!

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

Av8BlueWater — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 17:46:00 GMT

By the way my PO4 was tested with my Hanna instruments photometer ... results .02.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

Av8BlueWater — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 17:44:07 GMT

How often should I clean the screen when I get actual turf algae? I had about 1/4 - 3/8 inch thick hard red /brown algae for a few weeks. It was getting thicker and thicker so I decided to clean half on each side all the way down. A week later I cleaned the other half but it will take a while to get the thick turf to grow back. So I'm thinking I cleaned it too early. When I peeled it off it came off like a single sheet of cardboard.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 12:48:18 GMT

Successes Update:

Jlinzmaier on the RC site: "An ATS is the easiest and the cheapest DIY project I've ever done. Not to mention it has been more effective at nutrient management than carbon dosing, and has only affected the corals positively (no chance of stripping nutrients too fast or too low as you might run into with carbon source dosing.) The maintenance of it only takes 5-10 minutes once or twice a week. Total cost for the project was no more than $30 and it took about 45 min to build."

Pistolshrimp on the SARK site: "i have one of these in my sump, not eleborate though jus got one cfl spotlight on it, but they do a good job, hardly eva have to wipe my glass, it transfers 90% of the algea growth from my tank to the screen."

Trichome on the CR site: "I installed one on my 29g tank and it is working better than my AquaC Remora that is rated for up to 75g. Best part about it is its cheap as hell to install and i was able to remove a pump from my set up to save money on electricity."

Jennyfish on the AP site: "i use an ATS but i also use a skimmer, i do find since i added the ATS i have no phosphates, and my water is crystal clear with no bad algaes growing."

Schnitm on the algae scrubber site: "Our friend was moving to a new house, and her 90 gallon system wasn't moving with her. So it took 10 hours to move everything [to my daughter's room] and we're just about to put the fish back in. I decide I'll test the water first. I have never seen a nitrate test change color so fast. By the time I'd finished shaking the vial it had maxed out. After some RO/DI dillution I finally got a reading along with some others from my Red Sea Marine Lab kit:

Nitrates: 300
Nitrite: 0.3
Ammonia: 0.25
Phosphate: 5.0

After freaking out and figuring I'd done something wrong and effectively killed my daughter's new aquarium, I decided I'd better test the water the fish were still in. It had come straight from the top of the tank that morning. I got something like:

Nitrates: 400
Nitrite: 0.4
Ammonia: 0.25
Phosphate: 5.0

Seems the fish had been living in this and we'd just dilluted it some with the water change from toping off the tank. 3 anemones and a dozen soft corals were living in this too. So, in go the fish. I'm running around trying to figure out what to do. The protien skimmer is dead and hasn't worked for more than a year (thanks for telling me now!). The LFS store is closed because their moving too. I'd been "priming" an ATS screen in my shop using wastewater from our Bio Cube. It had been going for about 2 weeks and was nicely green but not thick at all yet. What the heck...I slap it in the sump and start it running with 4 CFL floods from WalMart. Then to bed to have nightmares of my daughter waking to a tank full of death.

To my pleasant surprise, the next morning everything was alive and, apparently, well! I go to work installing the hood, chiller, etc. By that evening I took another water sample and got:

Nitrates: 200
Nitrite: 0.2+
Ammonia: 0.25
Phosphate: 5.0

Everything seemed fine. I'm wondering if I'd messed up the readings on Thursday. Saturday was mostly a day off. The ATS had grown thick already so I scraped it. Just a few measurements:

Nitrates: not measured
Nitrite: 0.2
Ammonia: 0.25
Phosphate: not measured

Last night's water parameters:

Nitrates: 15 (I kid you not. 15. Checked this over and over. The 10X dillution I started with showed undetectable. I'd needed a 10X dillution before, just to get a reading. Got this 15 on straight tank water.)

Nitrite: 0.2
Ammonia: trace
Phosphate: 3.0

Thursday night I thought I was in the middle of a slow motion trainwreck, but by today all looks good. Thaks to all who have contributed! You lead me down the right path.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 11:58:36 GMT

First, the scrubber in the pics will not work, because the screen is wrapped over the pipe. Re-do it so that it does not wrap over the pipe.

Also, use two smaller bulbs that you can put down into the bucket. SEAL them with aquarium safe silicone first, because they may get wet.

So far, you do not have a scrubber at all. All it is doing is clouding and coloring the water.

Lastly, scrubbers do not use CA, Mg, Sr or Si.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

k_zangeneh — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 06:19:27 GMT

hi to all
it seems that no body experinced more on ATS
santa pls dont sell your preseeded sheets because after you post it every body scaped

anyway its me again and a bunch of questions

one of my friends had some problem about high nitrate level so i recommend him to set up an ATS

he did but he had some problem and now its ok generaly
i attached pics of his system but they are old one and i have no new ones but in the first pic he had problems about remaining water in the bucket and he use a bigger out put and the problem solved and in the secound pic he add another lamp asa well as pushing them more inside the bucket
the system is running about 3 weeks and he jas a lot of diatom over the sheet

[URL=http://www.myup.ir/][

1- whats going on with Diatoms in his tank ? i think there is a diatom explosion there every where is covered by diatom main tank and the sheet afetr washing the sheet gently it turned a little to green but another time diatom explode so he has to wash the sheet daily

2- just now his anemone appeared a little not ok and it is not like before, is this happend because of using ATS ?

3- i knew that algae consume minerals like nitrat and phosphate as well as some other ingrediants like iron but i am not sure about consuming of calcium and Mg or Sr and Si
is any ATS system consume the minerals which reefs use them ?
and based on this can we say generaly after setting up an ATS we need to add more trace elements ?

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:15:18 GMT

Why Algae Works

More Info:

Algae and Human Affairs, By Carole A. Lembi, J. Robert Waaland, Phycological Society of America
www.PSAalgae.org
www.AlgaeBase.org

Text: 90 percent of all living matter (except bacteria) in the ocean is algae of all forms and colors. The remaining 10% (except bacteria) of all living matter in the ocean is: Corals, Plants, Sponges, Worms, Snails, Clams, Octopi, Shrimp, Crabs, Pods, Urchins, Starfish, Small Fish, Medium Fish, Big Fish, Sharks, Whales, Giant Squids, and Everything Else. The algae is what does all the filtering of the waste from the animals, and the algae is also what feeds all the animals through the various food webs.

Aquariums, however (especially ones without refugiums), have no algae to do the filtering or feeding. So all the filtering has to be done manually with equipment, and all the feeding has to be done manually too. At least with a refugium, there is some filtering and feeding, although most refugiums are far too small to do all of it. Scrubbers are powerful enough to do all the filtering by themselves, and can do a lot of the feeding too, if copepods are the food that is desired.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SimonSKL — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 08:17:34 GMT

My new material screen started to split near the top a few weeks ago. I just rotated it 90 degree. I think it will last a few more months. The new material is a little fragile especially with the weight of the algae on it so it has to be handled more carefully. But scraping the algae off is easy and quick.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

Av8BlueWater — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 08:05:13 GMT

Sounds like a good screen. Mine stopped falling apart after I zip tied it to the tank divider but it's really too thick with to get water to flow well over the edges at the top. Works fine for now not worth replacing yet.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:25:15 GMT

Final screen version

The previous screen material that I had people testing was starting to rip where the tie-wraps went through, so it was not working. I did find a custom manufactured solution to solve this, which used a solid sheet on the inside of the screen, but it was just too much money. So it looks like the best screen material for me to offer is extreme-roughened, double-layered, plastic canvas.

As you know, if you already tried to rough up plastic canvas, all the work is in making it rough. You have to use a hole-saw (by hand), since sandpaper does not leave the "jagged" pieces that you want. You really need the jagged pieces which will grab hold of the algae, so the algae won't let go and fall into the water. This is of course because more algae growth (i.e, more filtering) means more weight. You DO want lots of algae (weight), but you DON'T want it to fall off of the screen. It should look like this:

Since the prickly catcus-like parts don't show well on the camera, I did a towell-drop test on the canvas. Here is the roughed-up version:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CanvasTowellDrop1.mpg

Versus the smooth version:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CanvasTowellDrop2.mpg

And both sides of both layers needs to be rough, so that algae will stay on the inside (between the layers) of the screen after you clean the outsides. And since the algae stays on the inside of the screen, you can clean the outside as hard as you want (scrape all the algae off) without worrying about "keeping some algae on the the screen".

So since this material has already been proven by hundreds of people who are using it right now (athough I never see it roughed up enough), it is just a matter of how much money is fair for a completed screen. If there is enough interest, then I'll start selling them.

It looks like I can make them for 20 cents per square inch. This is equal to:

0.20 USD per square inch
.032 USD per square cm
2.65 MXN per square inch
0.43 MXN per square cm
0.22 CAD per square inch
.035 CAD per square cm
0.14 EUR per square inch
.023 EUR per square cm
0.12 GBP per square inch
0.02 GBP per square cm
0.28 NZD per square inch
0.45 NZD per square cm
0.28 SGD per square inch
.045 SGD per square cm
1.49 ZAR per square inch
.024 ZAR per square cm
1.31 FRF per square inch
0.21 FRF per square cm
2.20 NLG per square inch
0.35 NLG per square cm
70.0 PHP per square inch
11.2 PHP per square cm

Shipping would be extra of course. Also, the screen area is just the finished screen size; you don't have to think about the multiple layers. So as an example:

A 10 X 10 inch screen = 100 square inches = $20 USD = $265 MXN = $22 CAD etc.
A 40 X 60 cm screen = 2400 square cm = $76.80 USD = $1032 MXN = $84 CAD etc.
A 3 X 6 inch nano screen = 18 square inches = $3.60 USD = $48 MSN = $3.96 CAD etc.

So post on here if you would get one at this price. There needs to be enough people otherwise it is not worth setting up to do it. If there is enough interest (at this price), then I will make them.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

Av8BlueWater — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:50:41 GMT

Anyone have success with LEDs yet?

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:02:16 GMT

An updated Algae Scrubber FAQ is up:
http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 22:32:24 GMT

Updates/Reminders:

Nano scrubbers: In my last update, I said a coffee can would make a good nano scrubber. I meant a plastic coffee can.

Wattage: Your goal should be to get at least 0.5 watts of CFL (compact flourescent light) for each gallon of water, for medium filtering. For high filtering, get 1.0 watts per gallon. And don't use incadescent bulbs... they are much too hot and use too much power. The biggest CFL bulbs you should use should be 45W. If you need more, use extra bulbs, not a bigger bulb.

Be sure not to run bulbs 24 hours.

Be careful of overflowing skimmers; there is a lot of ammonia in that skimmate. A scrubber will help eat that ammonia if it overflows.

If you have cyano on your screen, you need more flow and/or more light.

If you smell any kind of "algae" smell while the scrubber is running, you need more flow.

If your tank has gotten rid of the nuisance algae, but cyano seems to be increasing, this is normal. Cyano does not eat nitrate and phosphate like algae does, so after your scrubber has starved the nuisance algae, the cyano has more room to grow. But if you keep your scrubber running strong and proper, the cyano will fade too.

If you have rubbery green algae, it means the flow is getting cut off and the algae is baking.

Pipe: Slots deliver much more water than drilled holes. Keep this in mind when figuring out how much flow you need.

Sump growth: Some people have open bulbs which light up the sump, and they are growing algae there. You don't want this to happen, so you need to use reflectors, or even foil, to block the light.

Coralline: Since phosphate will slow down coralline growth, you will start seeing more coralline as your phosphate drops in your water.

Advanced DIY trick: For those who can build such a thing, if you could build a top-off device which would shut off the flow to the screen, and then run your FW top-off water on it, then switch back to the regular flow, you would be able to extend the time between cleanings because the pods would be kept in control.

Dead fish: Scrubbers handle dead fish wonderfully; since ammonia is algae's favorite food, when a fish dies the algae will consume as much of the ammonia as it can, which could save your tank if the fish dies overnight. A skimmer, however, does not remove ammonia at all.

What equipment comes first: With regard to scrubbers, here are a few points to consider when planning which device should come before which other device (if you use them):

Skimmer: It should come before the scrubber and after the display, so that it does not remove the pods that come from the scrubber (if you need pods).

UV: Also should come before the scrubber and after the display, for same reason.

Mechanical filters/socks: Same as UV and skimmer. These trap food and pods (which rot and add Nitrate and Phosphate to the water), and thus should be the first thing you should stop using unless you change/clean them daily (but then you are removing the food for the corals.)

PO4/N03 removers: Really doesn't matter because N and P are the same throughout the system.

Fuge LR/LS/Macro: Doesn't matter, as far as nutrient removal is concerned.

Bio Balls (!): Should be removed slowly, unless you have massive amounts of fish, and little rock/sand.

Screens: I will be selling ready-to-use screens soon. But until then, it's best to use two layers of extremely-rough plastic canvas, using a hole-saw (and about an hour) to rough up all four sides of the two sheets:

To demonstrate how rough the screen should be, here is a video of a towel dropped on a rough screen:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CanvasTowellDrop1.mpg

...compared to a smooth screen:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CanvasTowellDrop2.mpg

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

PHYTO4LIFE — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 21:01:37 GMT

SimonSKL (9/5/2009)

k_zangeneh (9/5/2009)

hi santa

is this picture show the real turf algae ?

After almost six months of running my ATS I am still only getting dark brown rubbery grow. It doesn't even look close to what is shown on your picture.

That a nice new background of the week for me thanks

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 12:35:34 GMT

Rubbery algae comes from the algae baking under bright light with little flow. Happens to mine too if the algae grows up into the slot and cuts off flow. Check above the rubbery part to see what might be blocking it.

As for it being dark, it just means your scrubber is not powerful enough to pull nutrients down faster than they are coming in. So look at increasing the scrubber power, decreasing waste buildup, or if the tank is fine, leaving it alone.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SimonSKL — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:13:23 GMT

[quote]k_zangeneh (9/5/2009)

hi santa

is this picture show the real turf algae ?

[/quote]

After almost six months of running my ATS I am still only getting dark brown rubbery grow. It doesn't even look close to what is shown on your picture.

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:03:18 GMT

Yes

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

k_zangeneh — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 05:04:58 GMT

hi santa

is this picture show the real turf algae ?

RE: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, and Everything Else

SantaMonica — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 18:41:48 GMT

Av8: Great to hear!

00: You can certainly run all of them together. Vertical is indeed more effecient because of faster water flow too. But if you double the horizontal's area, and put all the light on one side (target 125 watts cfl or pc), and use a very rough two-layer screen, and tilt it so water flows as fast as possible, you will be fine.