Marine Depot Forums / TEAM Marine Depot / Marine Systems and Husbandry – by Anthony Calfo / questions for those who are farming / Latest Posts

RE: questions for those who are farming

Anthony Calfo — Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:19:57 GMT

sans airlifts, I'd do small-med powerheads with eductors on them and foam guards on the pump intakes that are rinsed at least a couple times weekly.

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 06:35:28 GMT

I am considering other options than airlifts, although they work great, they generate a lot of splatter and without a guard, i shorted on of my lamps even though it is 12 inches off the water surface. guard now in place

keep reading and you will find all the things not to do,

RE: questions for those who are farming

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:18:30 GMT

very much obliged for the pic posting... so helpful to others

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:55:32 GMT

cant tell you off the top of my head, but it should come in soon, will show pic and compare flow rates

RE: questions for those who are farming

123and456 — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:20:45 GMT

thanks for the explanation on your air lifts my next question is what size of air pump did you end up going with for the new one?

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 07:57:33 GMT

I also will be getting a new air pump off ebay that will be pushing more air, so will post pics of it in motion...I am hoping to increase water flow a lot

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 07:56:16 GMT

picture of the anemone...it has now been eating daily for one week, mouth is still a little full, so we will see how it does

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 05:35:40 GMT

will take pics later but just posting updates

put a starter toadstool leather in 1 tank, my xenia is starting to look happier and for now i have 3 damsels in the tank, am feeding them/tank oyster eggs/rotifers/cyclopeeze/mysis mixture

i now have a bta...actually the one that wasnt happy enough to split at IMAC...it is looking great and has been fed daily same mixture as above... late september i may start cutting it

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:13:11 GMT

sure... i could not seem to conceptualize it until i set it up...

i have a small airpump pusing air through airline to a pvc about 2/3 down glued in...the air bubbles travel up and out the elbow creating a vacuum to draw out the water...i narrowed the outlet ot increase the flow some... the upside down L shape is the airlift (2 of them ) sitting within a PVC frame, rather than hanging it... drilled holes in the frame work so it sinks

I am getting a much higher flow air pump for 30 on ebay and will try that ...I want really good air flow for the bta tank as i start feeding and such

RE: questions for those who are farming

123and456 — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:33:20 GMT

Forestal,
Is there a chance you could talk a little bit about the air lift that you have shown on page 2? I have never seen one setup that way and am curious to how or why you set it up that way.

RE: questions for those who are farming

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 29 May 2007 17:09:41 GMT

Doh! Capillary action

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Mon, 28 May 2007 05:08:56 GMT

tip for those like me who have to learn things the hard way...dont let your carpet overhang the outer edge or the water will wick up and drip...one more way i have caused a water issue , hehe

RE: questions for those who are farming

Anthony Calfo — Sat, 26 May 2007 13:25:58 GMT

thanks for sharing the images and prgress, my friend... 'tis very helpful and inspiring to others.

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Sun, 20 May 2007 16:10:39 GMT

Hey Curt, thanks

I am hoping to swing last minute, but looking like not...expenses are such will be tough to swing the airfare and hotel, i'm bummed, i have done the last 3 but definitely next year

should be a good show tho, the gang is getting the list together for the frag supplies

RE: questions for those who are farming

Curtswearing — Sun, 20 May 2007 15:40:54 GMT

Hey Dan,

This is Curt (Inwall75)

Congrats!!!! This seems like a neat project.

PS....are you going to IMAC with FragExchange. I'm going to try to make at least a day.

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Sat, 19 May 2007 16:16:48 GMT

thought I would update for those interested. I am taking things slow to do it right the first time (i hope)

I had my first 100 gallon tub filled for a month cycling. Now 1 week with first Xenia frag in it acclimating... it has shifted from the bottom of halides to this, so it is recovering slowly. I plan on 3 months at least before considering fragging.

Phase 1:
3 100 gallon tubs with air driven sponge filters and airlifts (i am getting the hang of how to tweak the flow here).
Each tub has 80 watts of t12 bulbs with 5500 K and cri of 90 - covered with light diffusers to concentrate light
12 hours of daylight
weekly 50-75% water changes
I plan on adding skimming as fragging starts. I am looking into getting carbon in bulk so I can use this for filtration as well.
I have the other tubs filled, the 2nd for 2 weeks now and the BTA tank today.
I bought the astroturf stuff from Lowe's - the only stuff I can find, it appears to have no chemical additives , however it is 100% olefin - i washed several times in the washer without soap for rinsing.

For phase 2 as previously stated above, as these tubs take off (and if the whole concept continues to work) I will be building racks, with plywood tanks and lined with pond liner that can be pre-fitted by aquatic eco system. the tanks will add up to 670 gallons total and each tank will be driven with airlifts with circular flow in a raceway stye

I am also modifying my fan to drive the humidity level down - walls are water resistant drywall

pics (altho not much)

newer airlift that i am getting roughly 200-400 gph flow out of each outlet - i have grasped the concept finally

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:48:42 GMT

i won't underestimate...i know some folks have success without water changes, but in my display, that is the best thing i can do, it really shows

i have a few of my weeds, er i mean xenia starting in one tank under 2x40 watt shoplights in top 4" water...my lux meter (i know not best) shows similar readings to where it was in main tank under halides.

will be setting up carbon and pimping the water flow...the tetratec generates decent but i need more. I plan on using the tunze small guys for low electric cost.

Once all readings are stable and i find a outdoor carpet i am comfortable has no chemicals in, i will setup the second tank with a bta clone, and the third with a leather.

I have 3 50 gallon and 1 96 gallon garbage cans and even only running ro/di for 2 days/week, i have plenty of water to use on my display (40 galllons) and on these for water changes.

when fragging i plan on having 2 smaller tanks (rubbermaid) to hold the inverts for 1-3 hours with sponge filters(that will stay in main tanks while not fragging) to let settle after fragged and then discard the water

by the time space is an issue with these smaller tanks, i will be finished with the building of 3 racks of plywood tanks total of 670 gallons, and by then ready to start contacting wholesalers.

so in 4 months or so i may start asking for some contacts in the business.

RE: questions for those who are farming

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 16:08:50 GMT

whew! good to hear my friend Please don't underestimate the need.

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 14:46:09 GMT

Alti, thanks for the pics, looks nice

Anthony, i literally put water in to start out last week, in one tank and will be filling the other 2 tomorrow and am using water from my main tanks water change to start the process

i am not feeding now,but likely will be using a fine mix of cyclopeeze and zooplankton/mysis...

my plan is once up and running to use 50% water changes (btw good memory you have i was looking into ozone, havent yet, if i do it will be on this...but i do 40% weekly water changes on my main tanks , have more barrells to make more salt,

i am using sponge filters and water changes for filtration and plan to use carbon and skimming as well....

but i am just in the conversion of plan to real thing, and working out kinks with water flow, and space

RE: questions for those who are farming

Reefski — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 12:53:40 GMT

what do you do for filtration and feeding?

RE: questions for those who are farming

Alti — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:35:32 GMT

Thats why i had to build the plywood monster and a new stony system

It was getting out of control. These small tanks seemed like a good idea when i started, but the space runs out way too fast. Ive been slowly segregating as much as i can. I just hate to move my precious mother colonies to the new systems before I am confident that they are properly establised. Its amazing the size broodstock you need for a sustainable harvest.

With all the construction ive been doing the last 3 months i have been a bit behind on water changes. I normally do 25% per week and have to add more water to make up for water lost in sales. With the addition of roughly 2000 gallons to the farm I have been having a hard time making enough water for all the water changes and topoffs. My RO/DI has not been turned off for the last 60 days

RE: questions for those who are farming

Anthony Calfo — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:10:47 GMT

bro... please tell me that you are using ozone and/or do over 50% weekly water changes?

I see systems like this year after year race up to early side/vigorous growth and then crash massively (toxic soup indeed). I cant recall from our chats before how you were on ozone and water changes... seem to recall you were very good with at least one if not both?

RE: questions for those who are farming

Alti — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:00:29 GMT

Take pics of everything. Ive always regretted not taking enough pics. I just finished setting up my new sps system and through the whole process only snapped a couple pics.

A window fan may be more economic than running the dehumidifier, but that onyl works if u have a window near by.

It may be a pain to keep those acrylic tops clean. I bet it will also block a ton of light. May be better to fight the humidity and evaporation than to make more work for yourself and block the light.

Heres what i mean when i say you will run out of room quickly

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 15:27:28 GMT

pics will be forthcoming

i have a dehumidifier ready if needed, so figured may be an issue, but have my tanks covered with 1/8" acrylic sheets (cheap at lowes) to cut down on the evaporation factor

Aquatic eco will pre sew/fit rectangular boxes with liner and i figure it will be worth the cost vs pia factor to do this, just send them the order for the size i need

RE: questions for those who are farming

Alti — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 06:28:02 GMT

Pics would be nice

When i decided to go with pond liner Calfo told me that folding it can be a bit rough sometimes. That was an understatement GEtting over corners and connecting walls can be really tough. Make sure you think about this before you start cutting and screwing anything.

Make sure you take the humidity factor into account in the basement. You will need good ventilation in there unless you want water dripping from the ceiling.

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Thu, 29 Mar 2007 10:51:17 GMT

well, i have water in my tanks, and have laid out my plans for several phases of operation and soon will start construction on 9 70 gallon plywood tanks with central divider and lined with pond liner to hold space for larger numbers. for now i am cycling the tanks and plan on putting in some small frags of xenia as there is not much to cause a cycle in the tanks...so when i start slowly feeding i can get the bacterial populations going. I plan to do 25% weekly water changes, and once i am feeding and having the tanks stocked will also be skimming.

using the tetratec pumps for sponge filter and airlifts is ok, but i have decided to spend a little more money up front and get some of the small tunze pumps so will still have very little electricity use but better water movement.

the airlift experimenting is generating roughly 50-100gph flow depending on size of pvc i use.

If any are interested i can post some pics of my room (insulated in my basement-steady temp of 60 empty but nearing 70 with lights on) - i am heating each 50 gallon stock tank with a 100w heater, which seems to not turn on too frequently now that they are running , probably more on at night.

RE: questions for those who are farming

Alti — Sun, 18 Mar 2007 09:51:27 GMT

Let me see if i can find some good pics.

Airlifts are going to be tough in these tanks. The lower rim of that tank will force you to put the lifts a few inches into the tank. It will really take away from your growing area. You cant fill the tank all the way so in reality there is only a good 6"-8" of water hieght for the air lift. I didnt get very good results with such a short tube.

Stacking them 2 or 3 high and gravity feeding one to another may be more efficient.

Those long raceway type tanks from AES look nice. I debated using them on my second system, but decided that plywood was a better fit for my application. 3 metal halides would probably be enough to light 2 or maybe 3 of those tanks placed side by side depending on type of crop.

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Sun, 18 Mar 2007 08:02:31 GMT

thanks for the info...on paper and real life often don't look the same....I do have plans on adding a few more tanks as i figured this would not be enough.

aquatic ecosystems actually has a nice 96x24 x15 raceway tank that might do nicely. maybe eventually 1 stock tank and raceway for each species would work well, but that is for future

I figure as i get the tanks setup and running and the colonies settled in i can be setting up and slowly adding, when i need them.

I want to do it right, and figure i have time to get the hang of the setup.

Alti would you mind sharing pics /info of your setup (or by email if you prefer)... My brain has a hard time sometimes

RE: questions for those who are farming

Alti — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:34:58 GMT

Good luck Dan,

I have 8, 50 gal rubbermaids on one of my systems. Figuring out how many frags fit in there sounds nice when you write it down, but the number really drops when you add the plumbing, build around the ledges in the tank and realize that its hard to efficiently light the far sides. Room for mother colonies is another story. Unless you are just going to chop up colonies entirely into frags you will have to consider the room it takes to maintain a sustainable broodstock. Larger frags will also need to be placed farther apart to avoid overcrowding. One 50 gal is barely enough for me to hold only the mother colonies of xenia. You will need one or 2 more tanks for the frags. If you are only going to use 3 tanks i think it may be best to concentrate on a single species. You may quickly run out of room otherwise.

Building platforms out of eggcrate on the sides greatly increases the ammount of frags you can oput in there and raises the frags frathest from the light a bit closer to the surface.

RE: questions for those who are farming

forestal — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 17:17:38 GMT

Hi Aries, thanks for the input... I have read that already and actually am further ahead in the business plan, but I was trying to get a realistic goal of how many to expect to fit

I will give you a run down on what i am doing and would appreciate any consstructive criticism...

I using 3 x 50 gallon stock tanks, which are wide and shallow, 80 watts of t-10 lights directly overhead each tank, with available space to expand with more tanks if needed... Lots of the info out there says just using a 75 or 55 gallon tank but it seems, with the anemonae at least you can quickly run out of room, depending on how many you are planning on shipping out monthy...

I have a fairly good business plan (it's my first, but using palo alto software and just paper to plan ahead with cost projections) that is flexible, have looked at the costs and what i want to make, keeping good records, and once i actually in am in production phase will start contacting wholesalers as per Anthony's recommendation get up and going before contacting them...

I plan on having Sarcophyton, (figure on fragging into multiples every several months rather than monthly) , Xenia (normal pom pom variety) and a BTA anemonae to start with...

with frags of the corals, i know how much i can fit on plugs/disks on the egg crate , the the BTA's although small seem will quickly over-run the tank, and may require heavier duty water maintenance due to the heavier feeding

I am using air pumps (tetratec) to drive airlifts for water motion and large sponge filters in each, - just need to play to see what size pvc will max my water flow.

I am using my basement that stays a steady 60F, and have built a well insulated room and will be experimenting on a heated room vs. water heaters to see which is more energy efficient.

I will be doing weekly water changes - probably 50% and skimming as well

I figure in a year (or a little less depending on how much i will produce) i can start selling.

I am looking to not get rich but supplement the income to pay for my reef habit, do some good with supplying captive animals, and have some fun. If i am lucky, i may even have this small operation grow, which is a pipedream...but ya gotta dream

RE: questions for those who are farming

aries4u — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 14:54:51 GMT

Looks like you have some reading ahead of you. This will get you started http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic24714-13-1.aspx Just as an overview its 1/gal in no less than 8 inches of water, not sure how you plan on setting it up. Depending on how much space your equipment takes you could get 40-45 in your tub. Read the "Do the math" and you will see that cutting only once a month you can have over 1000 ( You can cut every 2 weeks) so how much space will you need? How are you going to sell them? Depending on how many you plan to keep the inventory will rotate it's self over time. One thing I over looked when I was looking into this was the cure time of the tank and acclimating the nem. Set one tank up 2-3 months later drop a nem in couple of months latter you can start cutting but then you need another tank and so on and so on. You will have a staggered inventory off one host. They will all fatten up nice. They will not be as small as you might think.

Happy reading, most of your questions will be answered or at least in general terms. I still have a few lingering questions but as I research the list becomes shorter.

By the way nice web page. Looks like you are ahead of the curve on fragging.

questions for those who are farming

forestal — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 12:25:22 GMT

Hello, i am in planning stages of setting stuff up (will be doing small scale coral/bta farm using 50 gallon stock tanks ), and am curious about a few things...

How many anemonae can be fit in a certain area? when cutting monthly i understand they are on small side, but I can't see fitting more than a couple hundred in a 50 gallon stock tank, altho they can be on the sides as well....

do you use dividers in the tank to seperate recently cut from new (say if you are staggering the process over a month as your numbers get higher)

thanks for any input ( and would love to see pics of a crowded bta tank to get a feel for it)