Marine Depot Forums / TEAM Marine Depot / Marine Systems and Husbandry – by Anthony Calfo / Anemone Propagation - Do the Math! / Latest Posts

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

chrismo — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 09:24:29 GMT

I've started my anemone farm, and things are going well so far, and I'm excited about it.

It's been mentioned that a good size for the anemones is 3-4", is that the foot size, or the whole anemone? I'm finding that my anemones change their tentacle-size on a whim.

Chris

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

Anthony Calfo — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:07:01 GMT

shop among the lamps designed for growing plants. See a high CRI rating (over 80 ideally... over 90 is excellent). Also a color temperature of 5000-7500K. Look close, you will see these specs available on the lamps... especially the plant type bulbs.

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

stesul411 — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 18:21:09 GMT

Anthony,

At the PMASI meeting you mentioned bulbs from the hardware store, but I missed what type, can you help me out ????

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

Anthony Calfo — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 11:42:50 GMT

smaller seperate systems are safer by far for more than a few good reasons, presuming you can afford it (increased maintenance and equipment expense)

Most of your shipments will be sent by air. You likely need to send a 100lb minimum to make it worth the freight for your shippee (they pay the same for 100lbs or less... so small shipments driuve the cost per animal higher)

Try your best to personally drive/deliver your anemones to a regional wholesaler. This will be cheaper for the consumer and safer for your business as you have control over the quality of your livestock on arrival. You may well have an LFS that gets weekly truck shipments from a huge regional wholesaler that you can supply by meeting them at the LFS and having them pick up your smaller shipments and truck them back. If you are in good with a LFS person... do ask them to ask their wholesalers if they are interested for you.

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

Chihuahua6 — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 11:37:01 GMT

Anthony I have two questions that I have not seen covered under this topic.

Is it better to have several smaller seperate systems or one larger connected system providing the anemones are all clones? With several smaller systems I wouldn't lose the whole lot if something went wrong with one anemone. With one larger system I could use one skimmer which I already own, therefor saving money.

When selling in bulk to wholesalers do they get packed up and shipped via airlines? I guess this depends on where I live? I live on the SC GA border, not far from Florida.

Thanks.
Amanda

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

Anthony Calfo — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 10:07:29 GMT

heehee... thanks kindly, Sonja

the business plan writing is consuming a good bit of time as are my entrepreneurship classes, but IMNSHO it is time well spent.

Agreed... I cannot underscore how crucial it is to write a business plan. It is an awakening in many ways... and will save many mistakes form being made.

I look forward to seeing your anemone business thread

Saving the reefs by growing our own :p That is American

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

ToddLaCo — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 10:05:51 GMT

Anthony, please accept my apology. I usually tell other people to look in your "Favs". I am constantly in your Favs and actually printed some of them out for reference. I wasn't planning on asking the question and jumped on this without thinking when the subject came up earlier in this thread.

Thank you very much for the info and I will be seperating the anemones ASAP.

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

redsonja — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 09:21:13 GMT

[quote]Anthony Calfo (12/6/2006)

And mind y'all... you do not have to wait a year. If you do your business plan and figure out how much space you have or need to meet your stated goals, this may only require 200 gallons and a harvest of just 50 per month... or quarter to just make some part-time money or charitable trades/donations of $4-8k value per year. The broodstock population to support that will only take about 6 months.

[/quote]

Trust me, if I had the time and space, I'd set up more tanks and broodstock and speed the process up somewhat. However the business plan writing is consuming a good bit of time as are my entrepreneurship classes, but IMNSHO it is time well spent. And time that I hope to soon have back for livestock care as said plan and class are coming along nicely And I am hoping that with time the cutting schedule can be advanced but for now I am playing it to the safe side. The good news is at the level I am working at now, I only need to sell 35 rbta's (or assuming lower prices from buyers 70 per month), to get to the break-even point on my total overhead expenses, for *all* my propagation endeavors at this time.

Thanks again Anthony, just wanted to let ya know your time is appreciated even in your *gruff* moods Or especially then!

-Sonja

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

Anthony Calfo — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 08:35:26 GMT

indeed... the early months/first year take an investment of time to build broodstock. But the harvests afterwards are a breeze. Trust me... its worth the effort to make 40-80K per year out of a few big feed troughs full of pretty anemones. There are worse ways to earn a living

And mind y'all... you do not have to wait a year. If you do your business plan and figure out how much space you have or need to meet your stated goals, this may only require 200 gallons and a harvest of just 50 per month... or quarter to just make some part-time money or charitable trades/donations of $4-8k value per year. The broodstock population to support that will only take about 6 months.

If they tolerate each other now, do you think they would be fine to propagate in the same tub or do I still need to seperate them?

Todd... I apologize for the gruffness here... but I am so weary of this question being asked over and over again and answered in the archives over and over again and me begging folks to read the extensive anemone threads that are dates and titled by topic in a handy sequential list in the favorite links sticky atop this forum... etc

"seeming to tolerate" each other does not mean they are not chemically fightting. On the contrary... they almost certainly are. And it might be 1, 2 or 4 years before one kills the other or they both die. On the reef, it would be a slower battle. But it is all energy spent in chemical warfare that could otherwise be used for disease resistence, growth, reproduction, etc. Farming is farming! One species per tank. And in coral farming... one clone/source. Period, my friend.

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

redsonja — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 07:51:21 GMT

Anthony Calfo (12/5/2006)

[quote]That will really take awhile to build the stocking up.

nope... gotta do the math. For "frag size" (small) clones that are so popular [in this case 3-4" anemones) the cycle of harvest for well-fed specimens is 2 weeks. But lets say you only split your anemones once monthly:

[/quote]

Yes, you must do the math (or, at least, I must: seeing it on paper or in my case, a spreadsheet really helps). Right now I have 6 rbta's and 2 gbta's. The start to building up stock has been slow for conditioning purposes. I got the rbta clone in early June this year. Split it the first time in late August (as I mentioned in your frag demo at MACNA ) and by the end of September it was ready to cut again. I am going the conservative route on my cutting schedule as the first time I cut at only two weeks I lost two clones, thus the 6 rbta's instead of 8 now. I got the gbta in August and cut it the first time the end of November (t'giving weekend, poor 'nem not only got no turkey dinner but got chopped )

However, even staying with the once-monthly schedule, by the end of May next year I'll have 200+ of rbta's and a good start on gbta's. That makes it almost an entire year of labor-intensive upkeep. But the process is as much a reward as the eventual income, to me.

-Sonja

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

ToddLaCo — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 05:51:21 GMT

Anthony, I have two wild caught (wont go this way in the future for broodstock) RBTA's in the same tank feeding and getting healthy in preperation for propagation. They have done fine and grown dramatically co-habitating for the last 2 months. If they tolerate each other now, do you think they would be fine to propagate in the same tub or do I still need to seperate them?

Thanks

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

Chihuahua6 — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 01:00:41 GMT

"doomsayers and negative nancys "

LOL! My husband and I use these same terms except we say negative nellies. We apply it to people in so many instances. So many folks see the glass half empty in general but life is so wonderful. It's what you make of it. I like the old Nike slogan "Just do it."

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:33:17 GMT

That will really take awhile to build the stocking up.

January - 1 anemone

February - 2

March - 4

April - 8

May - 16

June - 32

July - 64

August - 128

September - 256

October - 512

November - 1024

December - 2048 anemones

2K anemones at just one split monthly after just one year... and thats conservative.

So lets say you only meet 25% of the potential harvest (1000 anemones in one year)... and that for the 13th month, you do not propagate all 1000 (splitting) but rather only do 20% of your colony (200). As such... you harvest only 200 pieces per month starting the 14th month. At a value of say just $20 each... that translates to over $40K per year in sales.

The numbers do not lie.

I was neting over 100K by my third year of the greenhouse and most of thse sales were just from 2 species of Xenia. The gross was a good margin as Xenia are low cost ot produce... just like anemones

My friends.... please do not believe the doomsayers and negative nancys that give advice without ever having actually farmed corals commercially. I have. Many others too. And all over the world. Very few of these folks are mentally masterbating online about acros and acans and zoos or trying to talk you out of coral farming

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

vaporize — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:06:57 GMT

I guess what is said is that not only that the color has to be the same, but all occupants should be from the same clone. That will really take awhile to build the stocking up.

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 21:51:36 GMT

it is chemical... and it is a (big) problem. Huge problem for farming them (productivity)

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

redsonja — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:24:49 GMT

Anthony Calfo (12/5/2006)

quite true... same "color" only and even then, its better by far to work only with clones of the same species. Not all corals are isogenic. Not all will tolerate their own species... on the contrary, many will not.

So, along those lines, would keeping different color bta's in the same tank but segregated in baskets cause "chemical warfare?" Or is it a matter of physical encroachment to compete for light/flow/food?

TIA

-Sonja

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:18:43 GMT

RE: Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

Chihuahua6 — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:44:26 GMT

I believe Anthony said they do need to be clones and that mixing another anemone even if it is the same species is not recommended. I also read this about corals some time ago on WWM.

Anemone Propagation - Do the Math!

Steven Pro — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:11:41 GMT

Someone came up to me while you were busy talking to other attendees at the meeting last weekend. The question was since mono-specific cultures are so important in commercial production, would that preclude housing orange, rose, and green bubble tips all together? And on a related wider note, should one strive for genetically identical animals so as to minimize chemical warfare? I didn't know the answer and I am not sure he got to you.