Marine Depot Forums / TEAM Marine Depot / Marine Systems and Husbandry – by Anthony Calfo / INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION??? / Latest Posts

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:03:38 GMT

my pleasure my friend... and thanks kindly

Do note too that there is a mountain of free information in my fav links archive here at MD. See the sticky atop this forum called "Fav links" and scroll down to the post entry called "discussions" where you will find an alphabetical list with great threads on business, anemone propagation (see the one thread called "doing the math" in particular), propagation threads, etc

Anth-

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

bchnit — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:04:12 GMT

Well Anthony, I too must thank you for sharing your knowledge, and for a great lecture this weekend at the NFMAS meeting in Jacksonville. Not only was I inspired but you've got my 12 year old son wanting to start a business too!! My first act is to purchase your propagation text, then to find a profitable species that can bring me hme for good! Maybe a bit ambitious, but I might as well think big. Thanks again for a great meeting. We both truely enjoyed it.

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Anthony Calfo — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:56:36 GMT

Try URI brand of Ohio bulbs (ask them for a dealer near you). They sell aquarium, tanning and plant bulbs (see Chromas or the equiv.s)

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

CanadianReef — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:47:41 GMT

Ok thanks Anthony.So far the rest of the bulbs Ive come across have a CRI of around 65-70.I'll do more shopping around.At worst maybe I'll have mix the higher K bulbs with the higher CRI bulbs to find a workable solution.

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Anthony Calfo — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:05:22 GMT

the 89 CRI rating is OK... just a whisker under the 90 minimum rec.

As for the color temp... its rather low, although Entacmaea is one of th emore shallow water anemone species. Yet I suspect with the heavy feewding required for farming anemones... you will suffer nuisance algae badly in such warm light. Please do seek a temp in the 5-7K range

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

CanadianReef — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:06:49 GMT

Anthony,I found some 40w T-12 bulbs that I would like to use for my amemone tanks.They have nice CRI at 89,but the color temp is only 3400K.Is that too low of a color temp? The light they put out has a pink tinge to it,looks OK but Im concerned they may be too low on the K scale to be worth using.

Thanks

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

redsonja — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 08:18:09 GMT

I think Anthony meant guarding the anemones from being sucked into the powerheads. Way too many horror stories of anemones sucked into pumps, powerheads, Tunze intakes, etc.

HTH

-Sonja

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Neil — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 18:04:53 GMT

Anthony Calfo (12/4/2006)

cheers, J. Welcome to MD! I look forward to seeing you around more.

The short story on the powerheads is that without using a foam block (which becomes a nitrate factory) on the powerheads, you will not likely guard them safely.

Anth-

may i ask for an explaination of this idea. I find it hard to believe that a powerhead driven sponge filter would produce more nitrates than an air driven one. It seems that in a closed system you would have finite amount of nitrogen available for oxidation, and that increased flow through a foam block would not produce more nitrates, though it might do it more efficiently or timely.

maybe i have missed something all together but would still appreciate being set straight.

Thanks,

Neil

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Kamilek — Thu, 14 Dec 2006 02:05:30 GMT

Hi Anthony,

Quick question: Is it OK to use natural sea water for anemone farming?

Asking, because The Scripps Institute of Oceanography provides free water to hobbyists, same water the Birch Aquarium uses. Of course it's safe for our displays, but is it safe for healing anemones?

Hope to see you again at the next R-a-P.

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:26:30 GMT

folks have used both safely... I prefer the Astroturf.

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Chihuahua6 — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:10:47 GMT

I thought someone mentioned astroturf and then indoor/outdoor was recommended instead. I misunderstood somewhere or perhaps different common names have different meanings to each of us. Now that sounds oddly familiar.

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Anthony Calfo — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 21:55:06 GMT

Also wouldn't it trap debris and become a nitrate factory

please think "Astroturf" (plastic carpet) and not treated fibers

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Chihuahua6 — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:33:39 GMT

Anthony I would be concerned about using indoor/outdoor carpet due to its toxicity, or any carpet for that matter. Carpeting is treated with so many different chemicals to keep it stain resistant, mold free, etc.. which is why I don't use any wall to wall carpet in my home. I understand the large water changes would keep the water quality in check but I just can't get past the chemical content of the carpeting. Also wouldn't it trap debris and become a nitrate factory? Is there another material you could recommend using?

This thread has seriously sparked my interest to start another business. I have plenty of room to do this in my large garage (that does not house our vehicles for some strange reason). Thanks for the inspiration. I have been in need of a new challenge and this might be the ticket.

Amanda

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Anthony Calfo — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:29:30 GMT

cheers, J. Welcome to MD! I look forward to seeing you around more.

Before we dig too deep on the questions, let me direct you to my list of fav links (sticky thread atop the forum). In that thread you will see a post entry called "discussions" with an alphabetical list that includes an entry with extensive info on anemone farming.

Please check that out first as you will have your question answered and many more you have yet to ask yet

The short story on the powerheads is that without using a foam block (which becomes a nitrate factory) on the powerheads, you will not likely guard them safely.

Airlifts are just like freshwater undergravel filters (see the LFS display tanks). A google image search will illustrate this for you my friend.

Anth-

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

miatawnt2b — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:26:09 GMT

Anthony,

Your talk at the PMAS meeting inspired me. I am looking into building a small prop system since I have a ton of hardware in the closet. I figure I have everything except a heater for a complete system. I have a question though. You mentioned no powerheads, use airlifts instead. Why is this exactly? Is it power draw, death from food processor, a combination???

The reason I ask is first, I have tons of Maxijets laying around, and I can build a big intake shield from PVC so the anemone won't get chopped. My second problem with airlifts (and maybe I just don't understand well enough) is that there will be significant salt spray from the bubbles. I hate salt spray, and would want to keep that to a minimum.

I appreciate your time.

-J

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Anthony Calfo — Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:19:42 GMT

no worries my friend... site glitch

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

laverda — Fri, 27 Oct 2006 14:45:35 GMT

Mark & ToddLaCo do you have business plans?

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

laverda — Fri, 27 Oct 2006 14:31:57 GMT

Thanks Anthony I dont know hwat happened there.

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

laverda — Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:59:47 GMT

Mark: You are correct, but I have not got to that portion of my plan and I already have most of what I need and don't really have to make much of a profit. Just a little extra to give my money for my big tank expenses. Also I since I have everything I know I can make some money at it but that is not my primary motovator. I will calculate what I have already when I set up my budget.

ToddLaCo: I have been following that thread for a while. But I am not planning an operation that big for now. This is a hobby for me and I am not sure I want it to become a full time business. I am enjoying being semiretired at the moment.

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

redsonja — Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:09:22 GMT

[quote]ToddLaCo (10/25/2006)

Attached is a link to an RC thread that I found to be the best info on a business plan, and great info on coral farming/greenhouses also. By now it has become a fairly long thread, but read through it all. There is even a copy of the thread authors business plan in the thread.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=898883[/quote]

You beat me to posting the link. That is an excellent thread, and the OP is local to me and has spent a good 18 months on research and writing that plan.

I'm still working on my plan, with the help of classes at the local Small Business Center (affiliated with a community college). Number crunching is not my favorite thing to do, but I'm doing it.

-Sonja

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Anthony Calfo — Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:06:07 GMT

feed daily in small portions for optimal (fastest) growth... turnover in water flow should be high enough (bare bottomed aquaris for cultures... never substrate) so that all sediments stay in suspension - whatever it takes to get that (start with 30X turnover)... the natural fission is tripped for more than a few reasons: critical mass (mature size/age), stress induced (temp shock... poor water quality), close proximity of another amemone or coral (or allelopathic stress in general)... etc.

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Reefski — Fri, 27 Oct 2006 02:37:50 GMT

what and how often should they be fed?

what PAR values should we strive for?

what turn over rates in tank?

my two RBTA's in my display tank have both split naturally in the last week first one and then a few days later, the other smaller one.

do they release some chemical signal or is there some signal from something else in the tank that triggers them to split? they were at opposite ends of the 260. one was easily twice as big as the other yet they both split the same week. the larger one first.

now i have four on the way to 1,000's. actually i am a ways off in starting the anemone farm. i will have to wait until we finish the new house, and we haven't started yet.

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

chrismo — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:36:19 GMT

Fascinating thread! I remember Anthony talking about propagating Aptasia eating nudibranches too, and heard someone local was starting that. Is that perchance you CanadianReef?

My wife saw that start up capital spreadsheet on my screen and got very concerned.
Chris

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

ToddLaCo — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 05:36:26 GMT

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=898883

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Mark — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 00:18:30 GMT

Laverda, kindly but bluntly:

The purpose of a business is to make money. If your purpose is other than that, you don't have a real business. You may have a foundation or a charity or something else like that, which is fine, but you don't have a business.

If your goal is to reduce the number of anemones taken from the wild then you should spend your time lobbying governement to ban the importation of anemones. A business goal might be to profitably produce and sell captive raised anemones.

The profit question is the one you need to answer in the business plan. How much is it going to cost you to produce captive raised anemones taking into consideration all of the expenses involved? For a more realistic view, include in your plan the cost of renting facilities and paying labor to do the work... even if you don't need or plan on doing that. Figure what price you need to sell the anemones so have a margin of at least 30% or so. You can get a 10% return by investing you money instead with very little risk. How long will it take to recoup your investment? What's the upside profit potential? What are the risks? What happens to your plan if you lose power for a week?

A "business plan" is a plan for how you're going to make money doing something. My suggestion is you concentrate specifically on answering that.

I hope you find this helpful,

Mark

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

laverda — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:56:07 GMT

For some reason the plan did not come through.

The purpose of my business Steve's Anemones(subject to change) is to propagate and sell 2 or 3 color variations of bubble tip anemones of the species Entacmaea Quadricolor. The goal being to help reduce the numbers animals taken from the wild as they are very slow to reproduce in the wild.

The plan is to build up a brood stock of 50 anemones and by manual cutting, propagate 50 clones a month. The clones will be sold one of 3 ways, retail, wholesale or to wholesalers. Starting in that order as experience and systems are sorted out increasing numbers and moving to the next level.

( Each has their advantage and disadvantages. I have not decided how I really want to sell them. I am leaning toward retail. at least to start.)

- Retail - High profit margin - Would require shipping and advertising most hassle.

- Wholesale - Medium profit margin - Potential to sell large quantities with the little hassle.

- to wholesalers - Smallest profit margin - Potential to sell very large quantities, would require very large quantities/no longer a part time business at this point.

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

laverda — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:52:58 GMT

ÚWell you guys, (especially Techiblonde) got me motivated to work on my business plan. I am more of a seat of the pants guy. Not always the best way to run a business, I know! In the past I had someone else do my plan and I would review, pointing out possible flaws, missed opportunities or give input as to what might be other ways of doing things. Any way you do it it is always good to have feed back from other knowledgeable people. Here is a brief version for now. I am working on a more detailed Powerpoint version. I have not started on the balance sheet or budget yet. Love to hear what you think so far.

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

redsonja — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:40:39 GMT

Serk (10/19/2006)

(I'm probably overdoing it, but we're getting a business license, opening a seperate checking account to keep it all seperate from our personal stuff, etc...)

I don't think that is overdoing it at all. I'd also recommend you get a state sales tax ID and if you have a name for your business, a Fictitious Business Name form filed with your local government. I've had a business license and tax ID for over a year now, albeit for a different business idea that didn't pan out, and as soon as I figure out what the business will be named, will file the Fictitious Business Name form as well. Having those licenses, etc., will allow you to get subscriptions to industry publications as well as price lists and catalogs.

-Sonja

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Serk — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:26:09 GMT

Steve - Thank you, the wife is the "paperwork" one though, that stuff makes me go cross eyes and get a migraine... I'll see what we've got once she's got it all wrapped up. (And yeah, I'm holding off actually doing anything more than research and talking about it until all the i's are dotted and t's crossed from that perspective)

Anthony - Thank you for taking the time to reply, especially when you're in a "busy state of year"... Okay, that makes sense about sizing and selling 'em while they're small... As far as hooking up with a distributor, don't worry, I've got a long term outlet, and have no plans to start even trying to sale in a real way for at least a year (7-9 months to get my brood stock up, and to get used to the routine of handling a prop system as opposed to a display system. I SHOULD be okay, I've kept BTA's successfully for 7+ years now, but... Anyway... Just saying I won't even try contacting a wholesaler/distributor until I'm confident I'm able to produce regularly and reliably...

Thank you!

I'm sure I'll be back asking more questions once I start in earnest on this, once all the proper paperwork is handled... (I'm probably overdoing it, but we're getting a business license, opening a seperate checking account to keep it all seperate from our personal stuff, etc...)

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Anthony Calfo — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:35:17 GMT

cheers, Serk... welcome to MD

I'm ready to ship 100 of 'em off to market, I'll have 200 BTA's in a 100 gallon tank.
I realize that's probably a silly question, but is that okay?

Quite so.,.. remember that this is a farm tank... and these are aquaculture sizes. Young, fast and small. For optimal success overall (safer/cheaper shipping... cheaper product for the end user... more profitable product for your dealers) you need to be exploiting the fast growth of young specimens (post-split to ~ 3" diameter) and keeping a brisk cycle of harvest. This is best for everyone. And as far as your profits are concerned... they are best on the early side.

Put another way... do consider how fast a human or pet grows relative to its lifespan. A majority of adult size is reached in the first 10% of its lifespan. Height of a teenager versus height as adult. Size of your dog at 1 year old, etc.

So very soon in coral farming too... there is a point of diminishing returns for holding onto specimens to get some extra size.

No... you want young, hardy, fast growing frags to grow out and get out. 4-12 week windows in this case

I'd be happy to help you with wholesalers... but I (and they) need to see you get very well established before personal recommendations go out. Get to the point where you can reliably produce dozens per month my friend. Also remember the business threads I have in my fav links sticky atop this forum. The trade journals are listed there with many, many wholesalers listed.

best of luck and life!

Anthony

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

laverda — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:24:26 GMT

Serk Welcome The more the merrier in my book. As a former business owner I would enjoy seeing your business plan and giving some advice/ second opinion if your interested. Anthony can be of more help with the wet end of things then me, I am sure.

Steve

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Serk — Wed, 18 Oct 2006 23:06:45 GMT

Howdy!

I hope I'm not threadjacking, but it seemed to make sense to add on to the "unofficial BTA Prop Thread" as opposed to starting a new one.

I saw Anthony at the DFWMAS Next Wave this past January, and again at MACNA, and after telling my wife about his "Call to Farms" talk, I finally have a tank project SHE'S excited about.

I'm working on the preliminary planning and such to start propping BTA's, and have a dream of maybe, possibly, someday being able to switch from my current career to Cnidarian propagation, but one step at a time.

(Luckily, my wife's a MBA student, so we have an agreement that if it's slimey and humanoid (Lawyers, accountants, government bureaucrats, etc) or made of paper, she deals with it. If it's slimey and invert, it's my job. She's working on a formal business plan, we're working on a budget/equipment list together, etc)

Anyway, just wanted to give an introduction and a THANK YOU for all the information I've already gotten!

My (First of many, I'm sure!) question - You mentioned that 1 gallon/BTA should be sufficient, so I was planning on going with a 100 gallon Rubbermaid Stock tank. But I got to thinking. When I've got a brood stock of 100 BTA's, and I split all of them, from that point until I'm ready to ship 100 of 'em off to market, I'll have 200 BTA's in a 100 gallon tank.

I realize that's probably a silly question, but is that okay?

Also, I know from the sticky that you're otherwise occupied right now, but if I may impose, when I've gotten to the point where I'm steadily producing 100+ BTA's a month, would you be willing to help introduce me to a wholesaler? I'm taking this slowly and trying to do everything right from the beginning, so even if everything goes perfectly, that won't be for nearly a year, at best...

Thank you!!!

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Anthony Calfo — Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:42:46 GMT

I've been wondering about species like Entacmea quadricolor and Condylactis sp. that like to hide most of their body in crevices or holes. Aren't they stressed by being "out in the open"?

less than the the staggeringly unnatural overstocking of fishes in our aquaria.. the keeping tangs (at all)... herbivores without a scrap of turf algae... et cetera

and the anemones are still burying their foot through pitifully shallow sand bed and attaching firmly yo the aquarium floor.

no worries

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

TosT — Wed, 18 Oct 2006 17:52:10 GMT

I've been wondering about species like Entacmea quadricolor and Condylactis sp. that like to hide most of their body in crevices or holes. Aren't they stressed by being "out in the open"?

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Killerwhale — Wed, 18 Oct 2006 15:12:14 GMT

Anthony, The tank set- up you mentioned at the beginning of the thread.I understand that is a very cost effective set up but is that the most efficient? If you had a few more dollars would a sump with a skimmer and deep sand bed be more efficient than the foam filters? If you use the lift tubes for circulation ,how do you avoid the suface bubbles and salt creep on the lamps or would a carefully guarded CL be better? Once you start cutting 100 per month do you need 2 tanks to seperate the ones healing from the ones ready to ship and alternate every 2 weeks

Thanks

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

redsonja — Wed, 18 Oct 2006 08:44:15 GMT

[quote]WarDaddy (10/18/2006)

Setve,
Go check out the T8 Bulbs at Lowes and Home Depot. GE sells a t-8 at one of the stores that is 6500K and very bright!

They also seel T8 fixtures for $25 bucks. It is the brightest highest K value off the shelf light I have seen.[/quote]

We have bought T8 fixtures at Walmart in the past for under $10. Granted, we ripped out the ballasts and replaced them with Icecaps
We had to go to Lowes or Home Depot for the bulbs because even though the fixtures were sold there, Walmart didn't have T8 bulbs.

-Sonja

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

TosT — Wed, 18 Oct 2006 08:41:10 GMT

I found this on YouTube. Visual aids are always useful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeQ8Dw1mnMo

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

Anthony Calfo — Wed, 18 Oct 2006 08:28:54 GMT

look hard/closer Laverda... the info is there on many of them (especially the plant bulbs as growers seek this info). AT home Depot/Lowes... I see these indices variously on the bulb headers/product displays as well as the cartons or packages themselves. CRI is an easy one to find... color temps too (PAR is a stretch). They are there my friend.

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

WarDaddy — Wed, 18 Oct 2006 06:55:26 GMT

RE: INSPIRING!! Demo at reef-a-palooza!!! QUESTION???

laverda — Wed, 18 Oct 2006 01:36:17 GMT

Thanks! Sadly most of the bulbs in the Hardwares stores that I looked at have none of that information on them. I will do some research online.