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RE: Just how big WILL an RBTA get before it splits?

NicoleC — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:38:45 GMT

100g standard 5' long acrylic with a 48" 260w PC fixture (yep, really). It's on the end where it doesn't get much light, but it sure doesn't seem to care. Yes that's the faux rock wall in the background. She literally dominates about 25% of the tank.

I've started compiling a list of inhabitants vs. what info I can find about their typical natural position on reefs in the wild, so far with interesting results -- I almost have a habitat already with protected reef rim/sandy edge inhabitants. But if I reconfigure the tank, that's fodder for another thread.

RE: Just how big WILL an RBTA get before it splits?

captbunzo — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:54:45 GMT

Hey Nicole - what sort of tank is this sucker in? And do I recognize the tank as your beautiful rock walled tank from that other thread?

RE: Just how big WILL an RBTA get before it splits?

NicoleC — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:51:47 GMT

I've seen them bigger across the disc, and/or with a taller stalk than her, but her tentacles can also stretch out to nearly 10" as well. She can easily touch the front and back of the tank if she desires -- 18" deep. She failed to get the memo about having "bubble tips."

If she splits, I'm hoping the new clone will be more accessible for removal, especially when it starts to look for a spot to live.

You're right, though. Decision time is coming soon... one way or the other.

RE: Just how big WILL an RBTA get before it splits?

Mark — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:40:06 GMT

Nicole, at 10" your RBTA is still a baby. If routinely satiated it can reach at least twice that size so I wouldn't count on feedings to induce it to split. Besides, wouldn't it splitting, just double your problem?

There are lots of tricks you can employ to get it to move or to get it out... but nearly all of them will eventually require you to move some rocks. The first step is deciding what you REALLY want to do. And in the case of these georgeous anemones, if you don't make a decision, they'll make it for you.

- Mark

RE: Just how big WILL an RBTA get before it splits?

NicoleC — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:13:45 GMT

They have been coexisting happily for some time now; about 2 years. My Euphyllia DO need a trim; they grow so fast lately as it seems everything else does. At this point the tank is only Euphyllia, the RBTA, zoanthids and some mushrooms, plus two old favorites: my yellow Tonga sarcophyton and the lobophyllia. Oh yes, and that most unwelcome monti I can't get rid of! I wouldn't mind ditching the zoanthids and/or mushrooms, but it would mean replacing all the live rock save a couple of small bottom pieces (which may have corals on them I just can't see). I could try to frag them all off the rock again, but I wasn't very successful last time... they just managed to grow back from bits and pieces deep in crevices.

Hmmm... you may be right about some new or more aggressive chemical warfare going on. I just looked and the fragments of sinularia that were growing back (despite my attempts to remove it from the tank) are gone. There were several small babies -- if anything would be sensitive in the tank it would be them. The mushrooms HAVE been propagating themselves like crazy lately.

If I had to pick one coral that is not growing and thriving as I would anticipate (in comparison), it would be the zoanthids. I could, however, remove them while only losing about 1/3 of the rock -- including, alas, my long searched-for showpiece tonga branch that I bought specifically for them to cover over.

I will say that hands down the single most important thing I ever did to improve the health of my corals was to remove other coral species from the tank. A dramatic enough difference for me to even remove my lovely favias, and I have been pondering lately converting the tank into a semi-biotope or other more targetted config. With my mix of fish, I could never really have a biotope tank, but I might be closer, or do something like a a "rocky reef meets sea grass" vibe.

RE: Just how big WILL an RBTA get before it splits?

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:52:16 GMT

Hmmm... I sure can't guarantee it will move or wholly explain why it hasn't before, but I can at least speak IMO to why some anemones move ot dark spaces in the tank.

If you/we think of it, the movement of motile cnids like anemones and Fungiids, eg, is done so by the influence of more factors (by far) than merely "best lighting" positions. Do consider that optimal water flow and noxious neighbors have a great influence as well. Indeed, the latter is of a more immediate danger than lighting or water flow issues. And in the confines of an aquaria. Sorry... same old rant from me here but yes, the "unnatural" placement of anemones with corls in "crowded" (by wild reef stanndards and with regard for the dilution of noxous exudations from neighbors on the reef) home aquaria is easily stimulus to make a motile cnidarian move.

Knowing of your big, beutiful but quite aggressive Euphyllid in that tank, if I recalled none other, I'd say there is cause here to initially run. In time, however, the animals may acclimate to the elevated noxious levels. Eric Borneman has done a fab recent pitch on this topic... the increased tolerance of aquarium corals... or not (in the case of our inability to reintroduce previsouly successful species to a tank after others have grown in and/or water quality degraded in time...concentrated)

RE: Just how big WILL an RBTA get before it splits?

NicoleC — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:36:54 GMT

No dice with this specimen. When I moved into my new tank ("new" being well over a year now!) she got bullied out of the spot I built for her by a GBTA. She crawled around back under a rock, out of the light and with little flow and no way for me to feed her. She then proceeded to eat herself and start to die, even though there were plenty of other spots. After a couple of months I finally intervened and moved her myself, and she has since stayed exactly where I put her then.

I've also tried the powerhead trick and the ice-cube-in-a-bag thing. I kid you not, she won't move. (Don't ask me why; the greens were real ramblers.) That's not a bad thing -- she leaves my corals alone! It's either en situ, tear the tank apart to get her out, or eventually I'll definately have a species specific tank. If my clowns would host in her I'd be very tempted to let her take over -- she's gorgeous and low maintenance.

Maybe I'll try the heavy feeding and if that doesn't work I'll have to bite the bullet and invite folks over for a steak and anemone move. Or at least one extra pair of hands.

I wonder where she gets her stubborn streak from?

RE: Just how big WILL an RBTA get before it splits?

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:59:07 GMT

[b] Since she comes from an aquacultured clone and her older clone "mom" has split many times, it's seems sure to be environmental, not genetic.

yes... very much agreed a dnmuch akin to the point I was making above in disregard for the validity of more than one species sold under the trade name. Its more of a nurture than nature issue here re: natural or imposed fission.

We can extricate this anemone for a proper cutting if you so desire. Block the light above the anemone by rigging an obstruction (just big enough to cast a shadow covering the anemone0 above the water surface. Leave only enough light on this anemone then so that the front 1/4 is illuminated. The anemone will lean/crawlf towards the light and each day for a few days you push the shade block forward until the anemone crawls out onto the waiting rubble or sand

Then chop it cleanly in half

RE: Just how big WILL an RBTA get before it splits?

NicoleC — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:28:11 GMT

[b]

Nicole... some folks int he past have liked to bandy about the notion of at least three species of BTA in the trade, one of which is large and rarely splits.

P.S. Since she comes from an aquacultured clone and her older clone "mom" has split many times, it's seems sure to be environmental, not genetic.

RE: Just how big WILL an RBTA get before it splits?

NicoleC — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:26:44 GMT

I really can't get her out without major renovations and lots of help. Any fragging efforts will need to be en situ. Would a partial slice be likely to work? I can't get all the way down to her foot, especially since the moment I touch her she going to dive under the rock. Only her disc would likely get split.

Heavy feeding, hmm? That's a little scary considering how much she grows anyway

RE: Just how big WILL an RBTA get before it splits?

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:48:48 GMT

Nicole... some folks int he past have liked to bandy about the notion of at least three species of BTA in the trade, one of which is large and rarely splits. While I have no doubt that more than one species is traded under the name "BTA," I think the inferences about speciation and husbandry that is so different from others is bunk. Folks just want an answer for the changes in tentacles, colors, active splitting or lack of it, etc.

Pysiologically all these anemones are the same (enough) and can be cut as you know if you like.

For inducing the split, you might try more aggressive feedings. Numerous other tricks (including inducing stress) have been suggested. I frankly have little useful info to offer here. I'd just get out a fillet knife and cut the silly bugger in half

RE: Just how big WILL an RBTA get before it splits?

dochoot — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:15:44 GMT

This may be in left field, but aren't people manually splitting them now? Saw a great thread on it. May not have been your kind though.

Just how big WILL an RBTA get before it splits?

NicoleC — Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:44:37 GMT

Is there some sort of critical mass point when a BTA has to split by itself? To think, not that long ago it was this cute little 1" clone. It's a good 10" across the disc when expanded all the way now (which it is actually not, in the pic below). Other than a few mushrooms upstream of the tentacles (along with some stubborn turf algae), I've had to clear quite a space for her. Only the scooter will even go on that side of the tank, and she keeps an eye on her when she does, although the current doesn't bring the anemones tentacles to the sand level. I most emphatically do NOT feed Seymour directly anymore!

It refuses to split, while my green BTAs split... and split... and split... until I couldn't take it anymore and off they all went. I'd frag it, but it's attached to several rocks with a very deeply buried foot, and without that 4th and 5th arm, I don't think I can get it out without damaging the foot. Besides, this is the anemone that won't move no matter what, and I'd really rather not send two of them wandering around the tank post-fragging.

Okay, I am happy on some level that she is healthy and growing, but this is ridiculous. I've tried to do large water changes to induce splitting, but to no avail; it always seemed like a hokey idea to me anyway. Anything else I can do to encourage her to give up being a maiden aunt and have a clone or two of her own? What if I used a super sharp scalpel and quickly made a slice in her disc where the current might separate the two ends, like a mushroom coral? Would I have to go all the way through to the mouth for it to work? Or start at the mouth and slice outwards as she contracts?