Marine Depot Forums / TEAM Marine Depot / Marine Systems and Husbandry – by Anthony Calfo / Horizontal overflows / Latest Posts

RE: Horizontal overflows

Anthony Calfo — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 01:27:07 GMT

yes... without modification, a 1" bulkhead can barely run 300 gph quietly. But thats no concern... you don't want fast flow through the sump loop anyways (bad for skimming).

Instead... focus your energy (and pennies spent on electricity) on creating water flow in the tank proper (closed loop, efficient stream pumps, etc

RE: Horizontal overflows

DAS75 — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:04:09 GMT

Setup a horizontal overflow on a 20g to be used for a refugium but finding with a 1" bulkhead I'm limited to about 300gph, this typical?

Not so much that I plan 300gph through the ref, just surprised with the 300gph with 1".

Complete (1" Tee on left for venting)

Testing (unvented)

RE: Horizontal overflows

Daemonfly — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:17:47 GMT

I've thought about the single 45-degree part, just as the simplest way of building the overflow (one single piece of glass!) but never thought of using that 45deg angle to bounce flow off of. Interesting, but wouldn't the flow coming up & out from the overflow push surfaec water otu & away from the overflow, to a point? Water will still go over, of course, but I wonder if it would have any effect on the surface skimming efficiency.

RE: Horizontal overflows

captbunzo — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 06:22:27 GMT

That's a really neat idea....

RE: Horizontal overflows

Little Things — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 04:00:00 GMT

Read an interesting article in a magazine (ultramarine) about a tank in the UK that used a plate of glass fixed at 45 degrees along the top rear panel, this redirect's the flow of several pumps aimed up at it into a rolling barrel effect, and create a back reef type flow of water coming over the top of the corals and then down the front panel and under down the display. This 45 degree baffle could also act as an overflow and produce a tidy solution.

Barry

RE: Horizontal overflows

RobertK — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:44:19 GMT

Seen.

RE: Horizontal overflows

Anthony Calfo — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:37:52 GMT

Great to read of your skimmer improvement my friend Please continue to spread the good word to other hobbyists that can benefit from the advice.

Regarding the horizontal overflow that runs the depth of the tank... it is not much better than a narrow vertical overflow. To be quiet it will need to hold a lot of water. In such case, the proteins will migrate again and the skimmer efficiency might not be helped. We really need to concentrate that water via inside or external overflow troughs.

RE: Horizontal overflows

RobertK — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:26:05 GMT

Hi Anthony,

I've been wondering about this as well. I've heard of people making "coast-to-coast" horizontal overflows on the back of in-wall tank installations by making the entire back wall of the tank an inch or so lower than the rest of the tank, but how about making a sort of false back wall inside the tank, along the lines of what Ryan is suggesting, to allow a coast-to-coast overflow inside a free-standing tank sitting on a traditional stand placed flush up against a wall?

Robert

P.S. My skimmer rocks since I converted my vertical corner overflow into a horizontal corner overflow!

RE: Horizontal overflows

Anthony Calfo — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:00:44 GMT

you did not copy the image incorrectly per say, my friend... Reef Central is just unwilling to let folks ref to their hosted images. Its better to make a link to their page or ask the owner of the pic for permission to copy it to your hard drive so you can post it on other site forums for help.

As for your overflow question... yes, I passionately feel that vertical overflows are quite impractical. They need a lot of tweaking to quell noise, prevent animal overflows from being difficult to remedy, cleaning, etc). Horizontal overflows are more discreet, quieter, easier to service, take up no precious floor space for rocks, etc.

RE: Horizontal overflows

ryanbrucks — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:10:44 GMT

doh apparently I did my image tags wrong....

RE: Horizontal overflows

ryanbrucks — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:48:21 GMT

Hey everybody,

I am having a custom tank built by aquariums for you. I want to get in on the horizontal overflow action, but I do not want any pipes or overflow boxes on the outside of the tank.

Here is the sketch i gave to AFY:
[img src="http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/167670design_01.jpg"]

I haven't really seen many people do horiztonal vertical flows that also span the whole vertical back of the tank. My question to you guys is... do you think I am defeating some of the purpose of having a horizontal overflow by still having them go down vertically? Is cleaning/maintaining those tall overflow boxes really that bad?

Could the taller overflows perhaps be noisier than the smaller box that most people are making? I think water will probably fall about halfway.

Any feedback would be greatly apprecaited! thanks!

RE: Horizontal overflows

Curtswearing — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:50:45 GMT

Post bumped for a friend to find this thread.

sorry {eek}

RE: Horizontal overflows

Anthony Calfo — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:11:53 GMT

I don't recommend this to anyone as they were extremely noisy. (might have had something to do with the fact that the water drained some 12 feet to the basement

oh, yeah!

RE: Horizontal overflows

MattTVI — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 06:11:24 GMT

Dman (2/20/2007)

Dman,

That sounds pretty cool. Do they cut teeth into the back wall? Do you know how much (if any) of a structural effect that has on the tank itself? Does it require thicker glass, special bracing, etc.?

thanks,

Matt

RE: Horizontal overflows

Dman — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:52:05 GMT

I've been involved with a few custom installs that are of the behind the wall/picture frame variety. In those situations we like to run what we call a coast to coast. It's a horizontal overflow that runs across the entire back of the tank on the OUTSIDE. We have our supplier cut the back wall 1.5 inches shorter than the rest of the tank. I don't have any pictures of it right now but I can get some in the next day or two and will post them here. It's very cool.
My 200 gallon tank had something similar to this internally, instead of one long overflow, I built two smaller ones and placed them at the 1/3 marks. I don't recommend this to anyone as they were extremely noisy. (might have had something to do with the fact that the water drained some 12 feet to the basement)

RE: Horizontal overflows

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:07:26 GMT

welcome to MD

In short, the principal benefit to a horizontal overflow is a greater concentration of proteins/organics for downstream processing (skimmers, ozone, chemical media, etc).

I also like it beter aesthetically (it does not take up floor space)

RE: Horizontal overflows

bleedingthought — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:57:11 GMT

Hoping this thread will come back to life, what would you say are the advantages (or just a "side by side" comparisson) of external horizontal overflows and internal horizontal overflows?

Thanks in advance!

RE: Horizontal overflows

Anthony Calfo — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:49:35 GMT

cheers, Dave... thanks for the kind words my friend. I hope you are in good health/spirits as well

As for the overflow, yes - you may indeed drop your water level and glue one in place (24 hour cure time minimum... 2-3 days with tight fits and light silicone wouldbe better).

The only (big) risk here is drilling the tank for the overflows while this tank is full. Its a huge risk actually... and one I would not recommend taking. Even with a rigged horizontal drill press and brand new high quality hole saw.

In light of that... it may not be worth draining the tank to get the benefits of a horizontal overflow.

RE: Horizontal overflows

JustDavidP — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:09:03 GMT

BTW... here's the display

and here is the existing overflow assembly.

Dave

RE: Horizontal overflows

JustDavidP — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:03:12 GMT

Anthony...

First and foremost.. hope Spring is treating you well...

I've got a 26 Bowfront that I drilled/dremeled with a single overflow. I used the standard bulkhead, pvc elbow, strainer and the old fashioned drinking straw silencer trick. It works fine now because it is a low flow, seahorse tank. However, I am cutting in this new "ref-HUGE-ium" and sump.

It is simply "seasoning" now and has been for weeks. I have it set with a smallish pump (MJ1200), moving water about and skimming (Euroreef). I will be cutting through my floor and sending the overflow down from that display to this monster in the next couple of weeks.

I was just going to leave things "as is" but have been thinking about using a horizontal overflow instead. I was wondering if you think that I could fit one in, by lowering my water level, and letting it cure for the shortest of times before running it again. (I really don't want to keep the system without the sump or refugium too long) I will be using acrylic (on glass) and was wondering if you think that there'd be too much pressure for a 'short curing'. Should I just leave well enough alone?

Thanks in advance.

Dave

RE: Horizontal overflows

Anthony Calfo — Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:56:00 GMT

it will clearly be a benefit in a FOWLR tank, but yet not be so critical to employ if the (possible) accumulation of nuisance algae in this fish only tank is tolerable from insufficient nutrient export. In a reef tank, such nuisance algae is suffocationg to many living organisms... yet less so in FOWLR tanks.

RE: Horizontal overflows

Bemmer — Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:20:15 GMT

Anthony,

I am planning on setting up a FOWLR tank. I just installed the horizontal overflow in my reef tank that I am setting up. Should I have put the horizontal overflow in the fish only tank as well?

Thanks.

RE: Horizontal overflows

Bemmer — Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:16:13 GMT

RainerFeyer (3/20/2006)

Location question and trapping:

If one would like to keep the water level 1 inch below tank frame, where would the horizontal overflow have to be located.

Also, what have you used to prevent unwanted intrance into the overflow ( such as fishes, snails, etc).

Would like to adapt a glass Horizontal Overflow,

thank you all in advance,

Rainer

Rainer,

I just installed my horizontal overflow in my tank this evening. I was told that the water can come up as high as 1/2" over the top of the overflow trough. So, keep that in mind when doing your calculation for placing your horizontal overflow.

I used black egg crate that I placed inside the overflow. I held them in place with suction cups that have hooks on the ends of them. I bought them at Home Depot. I will try to include pics soon.

Good luck.

Rebecca

RE: Horizontal overflows

skatezen — Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:28:03 GMT

Here's mine in my 75, made out of a singe 2'x2' 1/4" acrylic sheet. You can barely even see it against the black background.

RE: Horizontal overflows

Cake Fan — Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:29:19 GMT

fredfish (2/17/2006)

If I were to start with a new tank, I would probably go with an external and have the back of the tank lower by an inch for the overflow. This would give a cleaner look IMO.

Fred

That sounds like a nifty idea, am I correct in assuming you'd only be making a portion of the back 1" lower and not the entire lenght?

RE: Horizontal overflows

RainerFeyer — Mon, 20 Mar 2006 06:28:21 GMT

RE: Horizontal overflows

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 21 Feb 2006 10:58:36 GMT

ahhh... very interesting! If i understand you then yes, it would be a fine way to make lemonade from lemons (feeding a horizontal overflow in this case by use of a pre-drilled vertical overflow floor bulkhead). Modify the vertical if/as needed (cut down or remove) to install the internal horizontal. No problem here beyond aesthetics.

RE: Horizontal overflows

MagnetoRd — Tue, 21 Feb 2006 10:53:33 GMT

Thank you both for the feedback.
I have thought about using them in a CL and or plugging some of them. One option I have thought about is put the raw pipe straight up from the bottom bulkhead thru the bottom of the horizontal overflow. Any concerns on it being thru the bottom vs the side of the horizontal overflow?
The next step would be to use zip ties to strap liverock permanently around the pvc pipe. Or maybe the foam some people have been using.
Again thank you for the ideas and information

RE: Horizontal overflows

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 21 Feb 2006 10:38:04 GMT

this might be a hokey suggestion... but in that "wasted" corner, you might add a fine pore airstone at depth and place a splash plate just above it (to cut down on salt creep from snappping bubbles). Simple airstones are tremendously helpful for water quality (O2, off-gassing, water movement) and may be an attractive feature for the corner. It will hide the seams and silicone is nothing else It will indeed keep waste from accumulating there too. FWIW

RE: Horizontal overflows

BrianPlankis — Tue, 21 Feb 2006 09:42:46 GMT

My next tank will DEFINITELY be a horizontal overflow, unfortunately I didn't know about them until after purchasing my 75RR. What REALLY bothers me about my current 75RR is that I saw one a couple months before purchasing that had a corner overflow that I thought I could at least deal with. Well, I go pickup my new tank and it has one of those slightly offset overflows that leaves about 3-5" of space between the corner of the tank and the left side of the overflow. I didn't think much of it until I got the tank home, full of water and then started testing flow. It is very difficult to get flow into that corner!

Since I didn't go with a closed loop and don't want a powerhead stuck to my front or side glass just to provide flow to that corner, you can imagine how difficult it is to get flow in that useless space that also isn't really big enough to aquascape. I removed my DSB from that corner and replaced it with a rubble pile to at least get a pod production factory out of that corner, but sure is a waste of space. Whoever dreamt up these offset vertical overflows didn't know much about flow and noise.

Brian

RE: Horizontal overflows

Anthony Calfo — Tue, 21 Feb 2006 09:15:39 GMT

I like/agree with both of Paul's ideas very much... addressing the issue that the floor drilled gravity overflows generally are noisy and unsightly. Thus... converting them to CLM use or just plugging them takes care of both issues. The display can then be drilled high (near tank top) for larger, quiter overflows (bulkheads with or without a horizontal overflow).

RE: Horizontal overflows

captbunzo — Mon, 20 Feb 2006 13:28:54 GMT

MagnetoRd (2/20/2006)

I have a tank that is in the building stages, unfortunately drilled for the vert overflows but they are not attatched yet.

One crazy idea, as a last case, would simply be to install a bulkhead in these holes, cap them off, and cover them with sand. Or you might consider using them to feed a closed loop and manifold.

RE: Horizontal overflows

MagnetoRd — Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:40:37 GMT

Hi,
I have a related question since we are talking about those horrid vertical overflows.

I have a tank that is in the building stages, unfortunately drilled for the vert overflows but they are not attatched yet. And I am interested in seeing about converting it.
So has anyone built/seen/have pictures of a tank like that. I am a bit worried about how the plumbing inside would look.
For the record the drilling looks like this from a top down view

backside
|----------------------|
|OO..................OO|
|...........................|
|________________|

front side

RE: Horizontal overflows

fredfish — Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:04:34 GMT

I did an internal horizontal overflow on my 65g tank years ago. Took me a bunch of fiddling to get it quiet because I didn't know what I was doing when I started, but I always prefered it over the ugly verticals: much less real estate lost.

If I were to start with a new tank, I would probably go with an external and have the back of the tank lower by an inch for the overflow. This would give a cleaner look IMO.

Fred

RE: Horizontal overflows

Anthony Calfo — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:59:18 GMT

if you tell me that they are also still recommending box filters full of bone charcoal, I will be very worried

RE: Horizontal overflows

wpecoul — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:55:38 GMT

Cool beans! Glad to hear that I just suffered from a case of regional ignorance!

It's even worse than that, really - the main in-town LFS owner still insists that VHO is the best lighting in any situation, period.

RE: Horizontal overflows

Anthony Calfo — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:31:47 GMT

yes... good points, Dave.

It's really funny to me to see some regions of the US and hobby at large that either "hold onto" the notion of dreadful vertical overflows or they simply are ignorant (as in not-knowing) of the sensible (discreet, quiet, efficient, structurally safer, aesthetically less imposing, etc) application of horizontals.

RE: Horizontal overflows

davejnz — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:28:23 GMT

One of the things that really surprised me after i finally got to see the horizontal overflow in action was the surface of the water.It is like a sheet of glass.I have a feeling this will reduce salt spray/deposits on bulbs and reflectors.Another plus is I will now be able to take top down pictures without having to turn my pumps off.

RE: Horizontal overflows

Anthony Calfo — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 19:59:45 GMT

its just a local problem for you my friend... and a small one at that. The overwhelming majority of commercial aquariums built are undrilled and without overflows. Your LFS options just prefer ordering them with verticals. A bad habit at that. From any LFS in the nation, you can get undrilled (or drilled high for horizontals) aquariums... your LFS may not stock them, but they can get them and they are cheaper (wholesale cost) by far.

It's also very easy to make your own glass aquarium... see the reference to a book called "The Living Aquarium" that I have listed in my stickied thread of "Fav links..." atop this forum. It gives you step-by-step instructions on how to build glass aquaria and then some. You can at least use the info to cut and glue your own internal or external horizontal overflow box.

RE: Horizontal overflows

wpecoul — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 19:50:27 GMT

These are really cool, and I can definitely see the advantages. My one question, though, is how tough is it to obtain a larger (120G+) tank that is not already drilled for vertical overflows? I see undrilled 75G's all the time, but nothing really bigger than that without the towers. I'm really interested in this for my next upgrade, and a bit more cost won't deter me, but I wouldn't mind an idea up front about how tough it will be (or how much more $$$ it's going to cost me) to get a 180 or 250 that I can drill the way I want it.

Thanks for any ideas/estimates/etc.