Marine Depot Forums / TEAM Marine Depot / Disease, Health and Wellness - by Kelly Jedlicki / LockJaw and Krill / Latest Posts

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Chunkmunk — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:44:38 GMT

Puffer Queen,

I live in Louisville and have heard so many great things about you and your knowledge of Puffers. He had a extremely healthy appetie of freeze dried jumbo krill and frozen shrimp. He still looks nourished but as of today seems to be laboring when breathing. After reading some your posting, I believe my Puffer has lock jaw. He hasn't eated in close to a month. My phosphates and salinity are slightly high but everything else is ok.

Please help.

Chris Martinez

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Hazyday — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:25:03 GMT

Hi Shelly, sorry for the delay in getting a response. What are you feeding your puffer? Is he not eating? How long? Mine was only eating frozen krill and stopped eating. It couldn't open it's mouth. I had to tube feed it a few times and slowly it started to come around. She is now eating normally. I will try to check back tomorrow. Hopefully someone else will respond too. This website was very helpful and pretty much saved my fish's life.

Dawn

RE: LockJaw and Krill

shelly — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:49:48 GMT

Hello,
I just posted regarding a porcupine puffer with possible lockjaw. If you have a chance can you please respond? I am very worried about the little guy. I think he does not have much time. We are calling the salt water tank maintenance service tomorrow but I am afraid they really do not know what they are doing when it comes to puffers. We have lost a couple in the past. They never told us they need shelled food to keep their teeth down.

Thank you kindly,
Shelly

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Hazyday — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:16:49 GMT

Hi Kelly, she was eating Krill for about 4 months. Nitrate levels are normal. I tube fed her 4 times. Three days consecutively and then once two days later. I then ripped tiny pieces of shrimp off for her that she could kind of just suck in to her mouth. She improved daily. I increased the size over the next week. She now can open her mouth fully. She is eating voraciously!

Dawn

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Puffer Queen — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:45:05 GMT

Thanks for the updates and I'm glad your puffer is on the road to recovery.

Did you supplement the feedings with any vitamins or additives?

What is your nitrate level running?

How many tube feedings (what interval - daily, every other day...) before your puffer began to eat on its own?

How long were you feeding the krill before you noticed the condition?

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Hazyday — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:33:14 GMT

I'm happy to report that my puffer is almost back to normal. She is able to eat larger chunks of food every time she eats. I am able to see her little potbelly now when she fills up. It seems that the range of motion in her jaw has improved. So I have to apologize for not being able to provide you with another subject to continue your research in NC. I will check back periodically incase anyone has any questions. Thanks for all of the help and support!

Dawn

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Puffer Queen — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:25:48 GMT

Sounds promising - yeah!!!

Please keep us updated.

RE: LockJaw and Krill

PorcPuff — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:38:52 GMT

Congrats, Dawn!

I think your puffer would be on her way to recovery. With enough nutrient, she would be able to open her mouth wider like before... My puffer is feeding normally now.

Anita

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Hazyday — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:07:08 GMT

Hi there, just wanted to update everyone of my porcupine puffer. I anesthetized and fed 3 times. The third time seemed to work the best. I blended up some Florida pink shrimp and scallops with some saltwater and actually got the majority of it down without regurgitation or it flaring out of the gills. I tried bits of the shrimp today without shell. I just tore off little stringy pieces and floated them in the water. She was able to suck them up and eat them. It also looked as though her mouth was able to open a little bit. I did see her actually mashing the bits. Her appetite never decreased so getting her hungry wasn't the problem. I'll continue to do this daily so I can insure that she's getting enough to eat. Yay!

RE: LockJaw and Krill

PorcPuff — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:49:11 GMT

Dawn,

I hope you'd try tube feeding your puffer. I helped my puffer to come out of the lockjaw condition by tube feeding. After my porcupine puffer (Buddy) had stopped eating, I started tube feeding on the 6th day.... after tube feeding for 5 consecutive days, he snapped out of the condition and is now eating frozen shrimp on his own in his home tank. I've just stopped tube feeding about 2 days ago.
And I only had clove bud oil... since you've MS-222, it might even be easier.

Best of luck to you and your puffer...

Anita

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Puffer Queen — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 06:22:52 GMT

Dawn,

Please keep us updated on your puffer. Tube feeding has helped a few puffers if done in the early stages. I would recommend attempting this as soon as possible. There are a couple threads on this forum.

I am conducting research with NCSU on this problem and appreciate any and all help. If the puffer does not make it or does not tolerate tube feedings, please allow us to perform a necropsy so we can hopefully get to the bottom of this horrible condition.

Again, please keep us updated.

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Hazyday — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 10:43:42 GMT

Hi, I just found your site when I was researching puffers not opening their mouth to eat. My Porcupine puffer is having this problem as well. I was feeding frozen krill because I thought that was a decent food item being a crustacean and all. I am convinced that she has krill lockjaw. I don't feel the need to induce her appetite since she is actually trying to eat. I just went to get some mysis because I thought that maybe she could eat it since it was small. She did try to take some from the thawing block but doesn't seem to be able to get it in her mouth. I do have MS-222 so I can anesthetize and try tube feeding. She lives with a snowflake and he is also eating krill. Guess that won't be happening anymore. I feel bad for her. Someone on a post mentioned that her puffer did make a recovery but do you know if this is mostly a fatal syndrome? She is active, hungry and acting otherwise normal. I would like to try to help her but I wanted to post because I know there is current research taking place. Thank you for all of the info so far.

Dawn

RE: LockJaw and Krill

dfabrikant — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:39:10 GMT

Puffer Queen (8/6/2008)

What is cooked - the octopus, squid and crab legs?

Cooking removes many of the essential nutrients.

Yes it is all cooked. I guess I can finish this pack and then just purchase the raw stuff. Thanks!

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Puffer Queen — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 06:22:48 GMT

What is cooked - the octopus, squid and crab legs?

Cooking removes many of the essential nutrients.

RE: LockJaw and Krill

dfabrikant — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:48:41 GMT

Puffer Queen (8/5/2008)

Frozen shrimp at your local grocery store is okay. Make sure it is not cooked and feed with the shell on.

You can also try frozen ProSalt prawn (on-line or LFS), PE mysis shrimp, frozen squid (grocery stores or Asian markets).

Scallops (frozen at the grocery store) is another favorite of puffers.

Please keep us updated.

Best of luck.

I found a package of crab legs, octopus, squid, shrimp fresh at the local grocery store. I purchased it for now and he loves it, esp. the octopus! I completly took the krill away and he doesnt seem to care. the only thing is the fish is already cooked, is this unhealthy?

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Puffer Queen — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:20:16 GMT

Frozen shrimp at your local grocery store is okay. Make sure it is not cooked and feed with the shell on.

You can also try frozen ProSalt prawn (on-line or LFS), PE mysis shrimp, frozen squid (grocery stores or Asian markets).

Scallops (frozen at the grocery store) is another favorite of puffers.

Please keep us updated.

Best of luck.

RE: LockJaw and Krill

dfabrikant — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:34:41 GMT

I have the same problem, my dogface puffer only eats Freeze Dried Krill, the LFS had been feeding it to him, now I cant get him off it. (Ive only had him for a week, dont know how long hes been on it) Tried Squid, Brine, Mysis. How do you transition off this?? I use Garlic. Ive even tried soft pellets that are krill flavored. Some people told me to get clams, fish, from the grocery store but no store sells fresh fish where I live, only frozen shrimp in the freezers. I thought of getting lots of snails, but I would like to supplement his diet with the squid, etc that everything else in the tank eats too.

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Puffer Queen — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 03:25:39 GMT

topdogofca (7/6/2008)

Hi Kelly, I read about the Iodine on the Puffer Forum. I went back and reread it and I must be misunderstanding what they're trying to say? Are you familiar with it? Your name is mentioned as THE person to ask. I found that website before I found this one.

I figured that is where you saw it......again, there is no research, no water parameters reported, etc. This is one of the most frustrating things about the internet and forums.

Again, best of luck and please keep us updated.

RE: LockJaw and Krill

topdogofca — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 21:25:31 GMT

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Puffer Queen — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:33:06 GMT

topdogofca (7/5/2008)

Thank you Kelly for your reply. the water was just tested a couple of days ago but I'm sorry I didn't write it down. I do know all was within normal range. Giggles is in a 120gal. fish only tank with a Yellow Tang, a Clown Trigger, a Luna Wrasse, a Flame Hawkfish, a Spanish Hogfish and two Maroon Clowns. I feed at least six different frozen foods on a daily basis. Krill, mega marine, chopped clams, squid, mysis shrimp,and spirulina. The problem is, Giggles dosen't eat anything but the krill and I didn't know it was bad for him. He went from being a voracious eater one day to nothing the next. He chases after the food but can't seem to grab it. His symptoms are a carbon copy of what others are describing in their fish with lock jaw. I also add Vita Chem and garlic cloves to the tank. I would say he was around five or six inches long and I've had him about six months and I just adore him. Plus, I have the tank at my dog grooming salon and the clients love him too. He's becoming sort of a mascot and he flirts with everybody. One thing I'm not sure of though Kelly is that I can see him opening his lips. When he knows it's time to eat or when he's hungry he wiggles back and forth and opens and closes his mouth like a baby bird but when I put the food in he can't seem to grab it.

The inability to masticate (chew) is also associated with this krill induced state.

Besides adding extra Vita Chem to the tank I also added a Iodine/Iodide supplement for corals. I read that lock jaw was caused by a B12 and iodine deficiancy. I hope I've answered all your questions. I'm going to check the tube feeding links. Thanks much, Laura

Where did you read about the iodine deficiency causing lockjaw.

The problem with this belief is that krill is high in iodine. Freeze drying or freezing does not alter the iodine content. The fish that has been submitted for necropsy did not have a low iodine level.

Please keep us updated.

RE: LockJaw and Krill

topdogofca — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:20:42 GMT

RE: LockJaw and Krill

Puffer Queen — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:56:47 GMT

Welcome to the Marinedepot.com forums.

It has been reported in both the freeze dried as well as the frozen....but freezed dried reportings are far more prevalent.

How long have you had the puffer? How big is the puffer? Has your puffer eaten anything besides the krill? Frozen or freeze dried? Do you add any supplements or vitamins to food or the tank?

What are your water parameters?

Can you post a pic of your puffer?

There are a few threads in this forum that mention tube (gavage) feeding...search function key in the upper right corner can help you find them.

The most recent thread: http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic81305-10-1.aspx

Please keep us updated on your puffer. If the puffer does not make it through this condition - PLEASE contact me so we can get him to the research facility so we can pinpoint the exact cause and hopefully a cure/remedy.

Again, welcome.

Best of luck.

RE: LockJaw and Krill

topdogofca — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:02:03 GMT

Can you please tell me if lock jaw is caused by frozen krill also? or is it only the freeze dried? I think my porcupine puffer has lock jaw. Also can you tell me how to force feed him and what to use.

thanks much!

LockJaw and Krill

Puffer Queen — Wed, 15 Aug 2007 05:26:54 GMT

After much personal research, I think I have come up with the cause of lockjaw in puffers and predatory fish that have a history of being fed only or large amounts of freeze dried krill. I have written a preliminary paper and presented my hypothesis to Drs Noga, Lewbart, Stoskopf and Harms at a recent Fish Health Conference. They all seem to think that I am on the "right track" and are willing to do the official research.

They are in need of deceased puffers or other predatory fish (lionfish, triggers, groupers, etc). They have to be shipped to NCSU and CAN NOT be frozen. They have to be refrigerated and shipped asap, overnight in a cooler. In addition to the necropsy, they will be doing histiopath and blood work. I will be posting all the shipping info, etc soon....if a fish dies before then, please PM me & I can get the info sooner.

Please - let's spread the word and get to the bottom of this horrible condition.

My preliminary article will be published soon - I will let all know the magazine/publication date.