|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 5/20/2008 10:51:14 PM
Posts: 52,
Visits: 71
|
|
Ive had this same discussion a couple times in the last few weeks with people, and have never reached a 'satisfying' conclusion. The coral in question is whats often seen listed online as Cynarina deshayesiana. Ive seen 3 different arguments for the identification of this coral; according to your Aquarium Corals, it should be a species of Scolymia. Ive seen older references calling the coral Acanthophyllia deshayesiana, though Veron classifies that as a synonym of Cynarina lacrymalis. The last one Ive seen is Sprung's take on it- that Cynarina actually consists of 3 species: C. lacrymalis, C. deshayesiana, C. macassarensis (apparently assuming that Indophyllia should also be viewed as Cynarina).
Are your thoughts any different than what they were when your book was published? And more than that, how can a hobbiest- without having access to a University for resources and equipment- have any chance of getting a proper ID for corals in their care? Thanks!
_____________' "Out of sight, out of mind." Given that the cumulative "mind" of the general human populace is somewhat smaller than a gnat's ***, this out of sight rule works in most cases.' -Dr.RS
|
|
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 5/20/2008 10:51:14 PM
Posts: 52,
Visits: 71
|
|
Any suggestions? Its come up yet again today 
_____________' "Out of sight, out of mind." Given that the cumulative "mind" of the general human populace is somewhat smaller than a gnat's ***, this out of sight rule works in most cases.' -Dr.RS
|
|
|
|
|
Group: Moderators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 4:45:05 AM
Posts: 3,970,
Visits: 5,890
|
|
Sorry - I missed that post. So, feel the septa on the coral through the tissue and tell me if you feel large teeth or smaller finer teeth - like shark teeth versus a steak knife serration. If you feel large shark teeth that seem to have the sharp ends cut off, let me know that too. If that doesn't work for you, I'll post photos and then explain the current and debated taxonomy of these species and which are valid and which aren't.
______________________
|
|
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 5/15/2008 6:54:43 AM
Posts: 14,
Visits: 29
|
|
| hi eric i second this question. it's been bothering me  I see it imported as both Cynarina and Scolymia. not to steal the thread, but the whole indentification process bothers me. Thank god for Veron, but where do we turn for soft corals? I have a really hard time nailing down definitive Genus/species for softies. Can you point me in the right direction?
|
|
|
|
|
Group: Moderators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 11:21:23 PM
Posts: 2,823,
Visits: 7,293
|
|
|
|
|
|
Group: Moderators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 4:45:05 AM
Posts: 3,970,
Visits: 5,890
|
|
Write to Michael Janes at Aquatouch in Phoenix and request a copy of his Octocoral Workshop manual and/or get a copy of Soft Corals and Sea Fans by Katharina Fabricius and Phil Alderslade. The pages Chuck links are good, but these others are always available to you and more practical in the long run.
______________________
|
|
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 6/27/2008 8:45:43 AM
Posts: 569,
Visits: 1,839
|
|
I love the soft coral book by Fabricus/alderslade but would love to have more, the octocorals workshop sounds like a great reference as well
Peace...
Dan
|
|
|
|
|
Group: Moderators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 4:45:05 AM
Posts: 3,970,
Visits: 5,890
|
|
email me for it. eborneman@uh.edu
______________________
|
|
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 5/20/2008 10:51:14 PM
Posts: 52,
Visits: 71
|
|
Eric Borneman (5/14/2008)
Sorry - I missed that post. So, feel the septa on the coral through the tissue and tell me if you feel large teeth or smaller finer teeth - like shark teeth versus a steak knife serration. If you feel large shark teeth that seem to have the sharp ends cut off, let me know that too. If that doesn't work for you, I'll post photos and then explain the current and debated taxonomy of these species and which are valid and which aren't.
The coral definitely has relatively large, pronounced teeth on the septa. They are largest on the outside edge of the coral, and get smaller as you head towards the mouth. As you put it, like sharks teeth with the point lopped off. If I had to make a guess, I would say Cynarina as opposed to Scolymia. However, it feels like there are fewer, but larger, teeth on the septa than it looks like I should expect just by looking at the photo of the skeleton for C. lacrymalis in Veron's book.
Say we assume its Cynarina then. For a coral like this, does identification depend only on the skeletal structure, or on the tissue as well? For example, just looking at what Veron calls C. lacrymalis, there are two pretty distinct tissue 'patterns' between individuals; one with translucent, vesicle-like tissue, and one with heavier, almost Lobophyllia/Symphyllia-like tissue. From what Ive seen over the years, the vesicle-like forms also tend to be significantly smaller than the other form. Is there anything to this, or does it not make a difference to taxonomists?
Ill quit with the million questions here and let you answer.. thanks!
_____________' "Out of sight, out of mind." Given that the cumulative "mind" of the general human populace is somewhat smaller than a gnat's ***, this out of sight rule works in most cases.' -Dr.RS
|
|
|
|
|
Group: Moderators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 4:45:05 AM
Posts: 3,970,
Visits: 5,890
|
|
THis is where it gets confusing and there is some controversy. There is no controversy with Charlie Veron. It's Cyanarina lacrymalis. I have showed him these variations and others and he says they are the same. Doug Fenner, Julian Sprung, and I all question it - but only on morphometrics and genetics could separate or combine them all. Here is a classic C. lacrymalis, a classic Indophyllia, a questionable Cynarina species (lacking the teeth and having prominent paliform lobes) and a classic Scolymia...and I can't find my Cynarina with the classic teeth with the tips looking like they were cut off leaving square-topped teeth.
______________________
|
|
| |